what about GTA2 or GTA3? 

GTA 3 was a bit crap and didn't run very well on many comps but Vice City was excellent. Wasn't it voted game of the year or something good anyway? 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3248461.stm 

metlslime:
never played gta2 or gta3.

pushplay, gib et al:
just becuase something is marketed, media-whored ad infinitum and given menaningless back slapping industry awards in the oh so wonderful media of our current popular culture does not make it good.

pushplay your post sounds exactly like a million, anonymous, marketing departments quotes.

im in a combative, grouchy mood today, can you tell? :)
it wont last long though. 

one, thought not the only reason i despise the whole GTA phenoma is that i am strongly opposed to:

meaningless, gratitous realistic violence in videogames, unbounded by any moral or ethical constraints or guidelines.

although that of course is a well known and completely different debate. 

when you say "GTA" you do mean the original, 2D, sprite-based, and very non-realistic gane, and not GTA3, the 3D, polygon-based, recent game whose engine was used for GTA: vice city, right? 

GTA3, the 3D, polygon-based, recent game whose engine was used for GTA: vice city. 

just becuase something is marketed, media-whored ad infinitum and given menaningless back slapping industry awards in the oh so wonderful media of our current popular culture does not make it good.

No, the fact that it's fucking good fun makes it good. YMMV, though. And pointless violence is possible, not required (though sometimes rewarded). 

given your opinion of the content of the game, your arguments sound as false as the mass marketing etc. It seems like you are bashing it simply because of the stuff it contains rather than the quality of the game itself.

I mean someone who doesnt like mindless violence at all could draw a similar argument against quake and any other FPS, regardless to the quality of the games themselves. 

What's important is: was I wrong on any of those counts?

You don't have to like GTA3, but if you're saying it's an abomination then you're taking a pretty strong stance there. A stance I would reserve for a rarified group including CS and... uh... no, just CS. 

I think meaningless, gratuitous violenece is great! ANARCHY!!! 

I respect your opinion and I would be inclined to agree with you, except for all the fun I actually had playing the game. There was a moment in the game where I had wrecked the cop cruiser I stole and as I crawled out, four men in blue tried to rush me. Just then the car exploded, taking us all out. Quite thrilling actually; kind of gave me that Young Guns II feeling, 'I'm going down in a blaze of glory.'

I see the crime oriented video games as being no different than mafia movies -- they go back a long way, and movies like the Petrafied Forest made in the 30's are as violent and cynical as any game we have today.

I watch mobster movies, and play violent games, but I could not kill or hurt anyone except in a moment of self-defense. Also, I am a polite, Natural Law abiding citizen and quite typical of the type of person who plays games, reads books, and watches movies.

Since the topic of violence has by its nature political overtones, I should add that instead of blaming violence on artistic preoccupations, books, comic books, movies, and games, we should look at the root causes of violence in our society, and that root cause is the existence of the Welfare State.

From the Welfare State a generation of lower working class Americans learned not to respect the property of others, and to focus entirely on day to day subsistance and a meager but destructive form materialism instead defering their day to day gratifications and saving towards bettering themselves.

High Crime rates did not exist significantly in America until the passing of Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society legislation which changed everything towards the worse for America's lower classes. 

I took a look at u2 THOUGHTS. Interesting that it took about 15 hrs (which is perfect time for a game), but many report it u2 was 4-5 hrs of playtime for them . 

they got bored and didnt finish it. Also, Shambler did say he spent time on the ship, looking around and stuff. Maybe if you skip to the mission without doing the exploration, chatting etc, it wasnt that long. 

I took a look at u2 THOUGHTS. Interesting that it took about 15 hrs (which is perfect time for a game), but many report it u2 was 4-5 hrs of playtime for them . 

both times seem possible to me, after having played it through recently. I think my time was somewhere in the middle, around 10 hours probably.

It always seems a shame that a lot of people skip every cutscene and don't bother looking around when they don't have to. I mean, sure, you can finish a lot of games in 4 or 5 hours (especially FPS). You can't expect a game to last very long if you quicksave every 5 seconds!

All that said, the game did feel a bit short, but I felt that they didn't reuse the environments much, or exploit them to consume as much player time as possible. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though, it means that your surroundings are constatly changing and you're never in one place for long.

On the flipside, a lot of RPGs will have a similar quantity of content to Unreal 2, but will give you 100+ hours of play, due to all the backtracking and reusing of locations that their type of gameplay employs. Often you are sent somewhere by someone, then you're sent back to someone else, and then you have to get something from the forest, and an hour later you've completed the sub-quest. 

re: welfare state.

You are wrong. Thank you. Drive on through. 

It is demonstrable that the welfare state has had an entirely negative impact on American culture; by changing the factors that go into the economic decisions people make in their everyday lives, you radically change there outlook. The largest factor involved in the creation of wealth is how people manage their time and resources. The welfare state alleviates the need and incentives to plan for the future, thus you create a mass group of people conditioned to think in terms of subsistance. 

what 

It is demonstrierbar that the well-being condition completely has had negative consequence in the civilizzazione American; , the factors that modify that economic people of the decisions that, take in every day its lifes, radically here perspective announce modify them. Greater the implicit factor in the creation of the abundance is like the handle of someone to its time and means operated to you. The condition of the lessenings of well-being with the necessity and the reasons, to slip during the future, you consequently produce to the group of people total conditions them, in order to think next to the subsistence of indications.

It's mostly the same thing... 

And as I cannot 'submit' without some body text, I will say it again....

Quake, Quake; my kingom for some Quake 

Mike: just hit the spacekey in the body and it'll allow an empty body 

I love blowing people heads off and blood splattering everywhere whilst listen to great 80's music. In fact this was the first game I actually bought instead of downloaded in ages, shortly followed by CM4 which didn't impress me much. 

Vice City kept me entertained for weeks. All the side missions are cool, but unfortunately there didn't seem to be as many cool stuns as there are in GTA3. Still, better than GTA3 overall, and one of my favorite games of all time. 

FUL LIKE MANHUNT -- MANHUNT REAL GAEM FOR PEOPLES WHO LIKE FUNN! HAKC< SLASH! KILLE KILL! YES! WHO THAT TALKING???? TALLKNING.