The Giant Fiends with Shields in Carved in Flesh, are they used in any other maps? 

At least you're willing to admit that you've made mistakes... 

I actually meant #2 to be the Flying Polyp, not the Drole. Got the names confused. Anyway, the rapid strafing and invisibility are a good combo, and the gameplay when he is invisible is fun either way -- 1. try to extrapolate his position from last sighting, or 2. just spray bullets and look for blood. 

one thing i wish about Eddie it's his ability to drop backpak[w/spikes] after death 

I liked The original Polyp's better - their invisibility tactic is easy enough to learn, the Quoth1 version just works as an armour stripper (like Pyro) which seems a bit . . . ineffective.

The Voreling would have been much better with lower health - imagine a pack of Vorelings as opposed to dogs in a netherworld map.

I wouldn't change the Drole to be honest, although his death is a bit elaborate it usually happens after he's chased you across half the map, like you mention, so it works as a reward. Coupled with the Drole Rage trigger he works well as a high teir rocket enemy. The map has to be designed around their use, which is refreshing.

As opposed to drop 30 knights, 5 death knights, a few vores and its done.

Edie is a sloid addition, although I always thought he could have done with a special of some kind. Not necessarily an attack, but something solidify his character as a mean fucking cyborg Ogre.

Turret monster - I guess this was supposed to be the Vore, but her accuracy breaks this mechanic. We're modifying to put her back in (what I think was) her original role. Basically less likely to hit but with an array of secondary abilities like rocket deflection and summoning multiple vore balls if the player moves out of sight, to launch all when they show themselves.

Rocketeers have a major flaw in that their shots can't be heard. I screwed up in warp and had them at such a distance where their rockets would just arrive without warning. No idea what the fix could be, since there's no moving sounds in Quake and making their fire sound a global would be weird.

Defenders are pretty good, although like the Edie an unexpected ability would have been nice - boot to the face with low damage but high knockback, for example.

Quoth3 - Ghouls? 

I'm complaining and making more spelling mistakes than usual.

Poker night recovery. 

defenders ai is ok, but i foolishly decided they should have SSG blasts as good as the player. i've been nearly one-shotted by these assholes without armor on. nothing fills me with as much fear as hearing their shotgun cocking right next to me. suddenly the new top priority is gtfo and this is completely *wrong* for such a low-level monster. i don't jump out of the water when i hear rotfish.

This. It's always pissed me off how a recolored Enforcer was able to do more damage to me than a Fiend. Combined with the rate of fire they spell out "completely unfair" 9 out of 10 times. Fix in Quoth3 please. 

Rocketeers have a major flaw in that their shots can't be heard. I screwed up in warp and had them at such a distance where their rockets would just arrive without warning. No idea what the fix could be, since there's no moving sounds in Quake and making their fire sound a global would be weird.

This is something that I have thought about, as Kell raised the same concern. The most clever technical solution I could think of would be to have two channels playing a rocket flying sound in parallel. The sound they play would fade in and then fade out, so the dynamics are like so:

<>

The sound would then be repeated on each channel by sending a new sound command once the last one runs out:

<><><><><><>

Then the trick would be to play the two channels 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

chan1:<><><><><><><>
chan2:><><><><><><><

The result is supposed to be an average level of sound the whole way along, but because the new sounds keep getting triggered, they move spatially.

In reality, there are practical problems which make it probably unworkable. Because timing in quake has to snap to the frame times, you are always going to have some degree of delay in triggering the sounds(even ignoring lag in networked play). So there is reason to make the sounds as long as possible, to lessen the impact of the random timing.

The problem is that the longer you make the sounds, the less frequently you play them, and so the less frequently the position of the sound updates. Which was essentially the whole point of the exercise - it's a bit like Heisenberg uncertainty! Perhaps 3 channels seperated by 120 degrees phase would allow for enough of a compromise - I'd have to check that would produce constant expected volume...

Anyway, I wouldn't post all this if I didn't have an alternate suggestion to float. Rather than trying to create a moving rocket trail sound on an engine ill equipped for it, what would people say to adding a 'radar ping' sound to the rocket? It would still eminate from the rocket, but as a very short sound you could get away with just playing it from a new position each time. It could probably be made to speed up as the rocket approached(or more likely the longer the rocket lived, even if it has flown past or isn't going for you). Does that sound too arcadey for Quake? 

Of both the radar sound and a global (no attenuation) sound.

They'd both be rocket woosh, but the global would be very low volume and the radar fading into it.

Don't how well that'd work though, probably need lots of trial and error. 

i had already tried to do the rocket whoosh sound in that manner (in fact, bob uses this method for his rotor sound) but the rockets move so fast that i ended up having to have the sound triggered every 0.1 seconds on 5 channels.

the radar ping is a pretty good idea though. i'd only have it play if the rocketeer is attacking a player though. 

Nearly all of the 'problems' you highlighted above are actually things I LOVE about the Quoth monsters. It takes me back to my early Quake days when I hadn't yet learned all the monsters off-by-heart so they were still challenging.

Leave 'fairness' to multi-player quake. Single-player is you vs the computer, and that should always challenge expectations rather than ticking boxes. 

I must say that I got to like most of the quoth monsters. they are a great enhancement to the standard ones.
My quoth favourites list looks much different than metlslime's:

1. Defender - because he is so dangerous but yet possible to kill within short time. I think them equal to fiends which I equally like.

2. Polyp - I didn't like them at first but once you get used to them they are fun. Don't give you much damage yet can be dangerous if push you into some hazard. Fun to predict their movement and kill with any weapon.

3. Eddie - give me some good weapons and I will have him done with pleasure :)

3.5 Rocketeer and pyro - the same amount of fun delivery as standard enforcers. Can be spicy when used in groups.

4. voreling, drole, blue plasma blaster - both take too long to kill and have annoying attack for me

5. gug, flying electro-cutter, vermis - take decidedly too much time to kill. Gug and vermis usually kill me on first encounter.

I don't have any feeling towards the whole knight family. But I have a question. Why do their swords reach further than expected? 

Why do their swords reach further than expected?
same thing as the drole, poor attempt on my part to discourage shambler dancing. 

I just wrote a whole long rant. and there was an error. 52? maybe? I'm drunk

Basically I love all the monsters. especially Bob. And gugs. though I lament their quakiness due to how much more variety they would have otherwise.

by the way, Necros you are a fucking beast all of a sudden! you're all over func and mapping and shit.
you've totally become the big man on messageboard. 

i just have a lot of free time atm, is all. 

to turn into a quoth discussion?

Descent has that radar ping sound (but on the player side) for homing missiles. It doesn't even hint at the position, I think, just the distance-the nearer the missile, the shorter the beep interval. 

i don't know, i just posted here rather than start a new thread, since the topic is "monsters" it seemed fitting. 

I'm rather conventional so I have a giant apathy against other monsters then the given Quake classics.
I almost gave up playing Quoth because I find them much too hard.

I know it's not fair because they only add a new touch to the brilliant game.
Although I really enjoy making monsters, and my boundless passion for it encounters no end.

Here's an example of Granito, trying to break its blockyness.
Still struggling to get its texture perfeckt disguisable, which is rather a tricky job with all different engines.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/granito.gif 

looks boss. 

I started again on my kascam project.
I would like to have a camera in Quake, that substitute the players sight. So by using an impulse one could see through the camera and inspect the level. By making a stealth walk frame it would be possible to enter places the player couldn't go by its size.
Although its health would be lower than the player.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/kam0casi.gif

Only if is that I'm such a bad script writer. 

Isn't that the microphone, Mike, from the movie version of "The Wiz?" 

@madfox, maybe it is just me but the bottom half of granito looks like it is dry humping a shambler leg or something ... could be the speed of the animation maybe ... umm need another coffee. 

I had the same impression 

This monster is construckted on a 64x64 cube in disguise of a wall. So its shape indeed looks rather clumpy. I don't know what you mean with a humping shambler leg, but if you find it looks like a queer sack: true.

As it has the precise angles to have its stand functions excact, it is rather difficult to change this in the other frame animations.
Chance is rather big it distracts the cube allignment, and then it isn't disguised anymore. 

please increase the granito's health
(2000hp? will help), the last time i fought him, it was too easy