It's a cube being carved out of another cube. Worry about geometric efficiency in that case is counter productive IMO. 

First everyone's happy and welcoming when new mappers join, then they use a tool in some way that's super unhealthy in ways that aren't immediately obvious and everyone throws eggs.

enliten, please bookmark this:
http://www.quaketerminus.com/hosted/happymaps/curv_tut.htm
it's super super helpful 

 

 

 

That reminds me that I wanted to sometime do another beginner tutorial just based on making good brushwork... would be a lot of effort though and I already have other things I should be doing :| 

https://www.quaddicted.com/filebase/travail_soundtrack.zip 

won't refleckt bolds because he can't read
WriteCoord (MSG_BROADCAST, oiginal_endpos_x);

I can read it, but would it be a good idea
to make him piss on dead players? 

Looks like the URL changed at some point, the link on the quaddicted page is still good though:
https://www.quaddicted.com/files/music/travail_soundtrack.zip
https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/travail.html

I replayed it earlier this year, awesome pack and the music really added to the experience :D 

is bookmarked :) 

Where is Travail 2 ???? 

Alright - so I'm still making a thing:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Py55XH3PZBRCf9kj0yh6ozQsgV7PV0he2PO4GBbssts/edit?usp=sharing

Check out the various tabs and the big DM map list. I still need to plug in links to the map downloads for most of the maps, and finish filling out some of the extra map information (layout style, texture theme, etc.). But any feedback would be golly-gee!

I'm in the process of getting a server configuration going that I'm happy with. It would be awesome to DM with some of the crew here some time. Custom DM maps never got their due IMHO. 

And there are lot of images embedded in the spreadsheet, which can be clicked on for a high resolution shot. You can also hit the images button at the top and browse my dropbox folder of map images. 

I don't have real feedback yet but I'm loving looking through this.

Slightly nonplussed that you're wrestling with setting up a NetQuake server instead of QuakeWorld, but I know there's lots of crazy kids that do that these days so whatevs. I'll certainly play there when you get it rolling!

Actually I do have one piece of feedback that I just noticed: your map list is missing "trimp" (Trilogy Multiplayer). :-)

Anyway, I assume this isn't ready for public consumption yet, but let us know when it is & I'll blather about it on places like the Steam forum and the SA Early FPS forum. 

I'll look into Trimp.

What's the reason for wanting QuakeWorld over netquake? Just curious. Is there more likely to be a more vibrant player scene with QW? 

Apparently you can extract the soundtracks for Quake and the Mission Packs from the CD images in the version that gog.com sells. There is even a program to do it automatically for less technically sophisticated users.

http://www.gog.com/forum/quake_the_offering/my_oneclick_audioextractor

From the above link:
"In case anybody missed it: Quake on GOG contains the CD images with the full soundtrack, but most engines can't use them ... and GOG can't provide pre-converted files, because of an old licensing issue."

I wanted to share this info here in case anybody here did indeed miss this info (like I did, for a while). 

Wellllll the general thing about QuakeWorld is just what it's always been... client-side prediction so that multiplayer works better under internet conditions. No "ice skating" like you get with NetQuake even on broadband.

As you've been seeing, NetQuake is also somewhat difficult to set up as an internet server if your host's IP isn't directly routable from its clients.

The other difference is of course the player physics... it's easier to reach and hold high speeds in QuakeWorld. Some folks prefer that, some don't. The "some don't" crowd is I guess the group of people who are still playing NetQuake over the internet.

As for a player scene: eh, not sure. I think NetQuake has more players in North America, and QuakeWorld has more elsewhere. In any case you're talking tiny numbers of players, especially when it comes to "random drop-ins", and the actual player population of your server is going to usually depend on whether you have participation from some specific online community (like here). 

As someone who very rarely plays multiplayer Quake outside of local LAN stuff, please don't take my word as gospel. 

QuakeWorld has prediction, lower latency in the first place, prediction of other players, smaller packet sizes, delta compression, nat fixes, master servers (for serve listing)...
modern servers tend to have antilag and a whole load of bugfixes to the various things I mentioned above...
that's the servers and networking...

mods tend to be more about rounds and matches and actual killing rather than runes and other fun gimmicks.
randomized damage or randomization in general is frowned upon in quakeworld.

and clients?... :)
clients are all about the cheats. fullbright skins, teamplay macro helpers, low res textures, etc.
vanilla quakeworld clients didn't even support interpolation.

the theme here, of course, is that quakeworld takes itself much more seriously. any advantage you think you can get is taken.

or in other words, the differences between the communities is more significant than the differences between the engines, and its this which has been driving those engine differences since vanilla.

quakeworld has all the technical advantages, but in its drive to make itself all about the killing+cheating, you will stand no chance of winning a match unless you've been playing for 5+ years.
netquake, on the other hand, imposes a minimum latency on everyone, this limits the advantages of a player's own reaction times. this combined with the stricter attitude to fullbright skins and lack of bunnyhopping results in much more balanced games (plus being 'the' quake, netquake tends to get more noobs dropping in from gog/steam purchases).
Thus imho both branches have their own niche.

both fte and dp attempt to give the same technical advantages to nq, but they do so from different perspectives. unfortunately they are both islands in their own right, at least as far as the community sees them.


@primal, I'm tempted to get FTE to just directly play music from the iso files. I'm sure it'll happen eventually... 

when they shipped quake the multiplayer was internally considered as "for LAN play" mostly because doom was, and the fact that it also worked over tcp/ip was I think almost an afterthought? they never expected so many people to want to try to play with each other over internet connections, so they weren't forced to make a lot of network optimizations (like the aforementioned client prediction).

your key inputs were in fact actually being sent all the way to the server, which would then move your dude and send the signal back that you'd moved. the client was mostly a display. you can guess how well that works over the internet. :) the bizarre effects that latency introduced to the gameplay led netquake to be dubbed "SkateQuake", because you'd hit a movement key for a second, the server would receive the press, but the release would get lost in the noise of the internet, and you'd just keep gliding along like you were ice skating.

people loved playing quake by internet so much they put up with it, so id rewrote the client/server architecture to work over the net as flawlessly as they could and called it QuakeWorld. 

I actually remember reading something different way back then. Maybe in Abrash's book? I dunno. The story was something like Carmack had a T1 line running to his house and tested the netcode playing from there. So, of course, it seemed great.

Until they shipped the game into the real world. 

Multiplayer network prediction is tricky business. The better your connection, the worse prediction systems become. NetQuake style of the server being the single trusted source makes for more precise gameplay when everyone has good connections, because you can trust that if you shoot a rocket at a player, they actually are where you see them (even if they/you are stuttering). That isn't always the case with QW and it's client side prediction. 

It is if you are on a good connection. Are there any modern fps that don't use prediction? 

I don't know about FPS, but in the Path of Exile expansion recently, they added 'lockstep' which is basically NetQuake style 'you have to wait for the server to confirm your actions' because their client side prediction was causing so much desync. It makes that type of game much better to play when you have low latency (you have the option to enable the older prediction though if you have higher latency).