cheers, this looks crazy!

Speaking of coop, I tried to run ad_swampy.bsp in coop last week, with QS svn.

The unreliable message limit of DATAGRAM_MTU = 1400 for nonlocal clients (here) was making it unplayable, was getting lots of "Packet overflow!" and most entities were not visible. Everything seemed OK once I uncapped that to MAX_DATAGRAM (32000).

Does it sound reasonable to remove that 1400 cap for nonlocal unreliables, maybe only use it if a cvar/cmdline flag is set?
I understand that large UDP packets are frowned upon and more likely to be delayed or dropped.. but not handling large maps/mods at all is worse. (I assume there is no way to break up the SV_SendClientDatagram message into multiple udp packets without changing the protocol?) 

re: "backup past 0" spam, it only happens with "developer 1" 

reliables larger than the mtu = server keeps trying to resend, blocking delivery of all later reliables. this especially includes the serverinfo, making it fatal even on tiny maps.
datagrams larger than the mtu = game packet gets dropped. when whatever activity goes away (ie: gibs fade out, the other players stop spamming shotgun effects, etc) then the game recovers.

nack networking (namely, fte's replacement-deltas protocol extension) was one of the things that I was considering adding, and would fix the huge unreliables issue, by splitting up huge updates into multiple frames.
the client parts border somewhat on trivial (at least if you're familiar with 666 etc), but the server side can get messy with logs and flags and resends and figuring out what consitutes a nack.
in contrast ack protocols like qw just spam everything every packet until acked, and are actually quite expensive on ram on the server.

remember that there are two protocols here.
if you're unwilling to change the nq protocol, you might be more willing to change the 'netchan' (ie: net_dgrm.c) to split+reassemble.
there's a limit to fragmentation though. bursting more than 4 fragments will generally result in the extra ones getting fragmented, so if you were to fragment that way, I'd suggest to have each unreliable fragment be complete in itself, so that they can still be reassembled even if there are gaps.
large unreliables will break the vanilla client anyway. so yeah, its important to know what you're trying to talk to.

I guess I ought to try to do the nack deltas thing, huh.

and yeah, I forgot about developer 1. :/ 

Just give it FTE's QW protocol support with map/model download so people can actually coop, throw in minimum CSQC so Sock's particles live on the client.

Why add another bandage to NQ's primitive protocol -- when you have insane skill levels which are fairly incomprehensible to even most of the rest of the engine coders?

(I mean, you spent how much time on this? A week? And there is other stuff in there too like IPv6 support no one has said anything about ... )

Then get a book deal.

"John Carmack Started Quake; Spike Finished It!"

/This update has a rather eye-popping feature set already. When I opened your download and looked I was like "WHAT?!?!?" 

I've got a small request relating to model rendering. Quakespasm has the same code from Fitzquake which flood-fills the "background" of a skin with black. This is to remove the bright blue background of some vanilla model skins, which can show on seams.

The flood filling locates the background by assuming it starts at coordinate (0,0). Imagine one of the simplest models possible, 2 triangles forming a rectangle, with a rectangular skinmap that fills the entire skin, and the entire skin flood-filled with white. This model's skin gets turned entirely black by the feature, because the skin is no-background, all-foreground.

There are workarounds, like making sure that the pixel at (0,0) is differently coloured to her neighbours. However, this still compromises the model somewhat, because that pixel is still visible on the model, and must be black in colour in these engines.

My proposed fix is modest: if a model has a UV coordinate of (0,0) for any vertex, then don't apply the flood fill code. None of the original models the code is trying to fix have this coordinate, so it still does its job there. Any model which has a UV there clearly doesn't want flood filling to occur, because the point you want to start filling from is part of the skin, not the background. It even allows for an "opt-out" hack where an isolated vertex is added to models at that coordinate to disable the flood-fill even if the model doesn't use that pixel. 

http://triptohell.info/moodles/junk/quakespasm-spike-r2.zip

decals seem fixed (sorry for not spotting it earlier). I've also replaced the particle traceline code with my optimised version to mute spam.
I added an example 'weather' particle config too, for people to experiment with.

@preach, doesn't sound too unreasonable, frankly that flood-fill stuff is just annoying. personally I'd probably just fill it only if it was that specific colour...

@baker, ipv6 is easy really, mostly just a copy+paste with the address families switched over, some different structs+field names, and a slightly different 'broadcast' mechanism where its the receiver that decides if its willing to receive broadcasts rather than the sender. simple stuff really. Besides, I'm not all that great a coder, I just know quake well.
regarding protocols, if you want FTE's full protocols, just use FTE. FTE's 'PEXT2_REPLACEMENTDELTAS' extension (catchy name that) should prevent the need for huge unreliables as well as providing a whole load of extra entity state that probably noone cares about. The client parts shouldn't be too bad, but the server parts would spawn lots of bugs, so if did port that stuff over, it would be as a separate patch.
That combined with voip.
I wouldn't know where to stop with 'minimal' csqc...

if you want qw protocols in an nq engine done the lame way, read https://sourceforge.net/p/fteqw/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/fteqtv/net_qtv.h 

This is all super badass. A possible future feature that I've thought would be mega useful would be QuakeC functions to draw textures to the HUD.

Once you can control the drawing of the HUD from QC, this really opens up a ton of stuff for modders (custom inventory displays, map screens...you name it) 

All the Backup spam is gone, decals works fine for me, but they seem really bright (colour wise). DP always made decals really dark, not sure why but all the decals look like they are glowing full bright.

I get spam on the console about not caching particles, but I have loaded the "effectinfo.txt" file so all of the particles should be setup. I am sure DP was doing the particle cache when the effects file was loaded, unless the message means something else.

I have updaded my world.qc with the new engine detection conditions (FTE_SV_POINTPARTICLES and FTE_PART_NAMESPACE_EFFECTINFO) and everything seems to switch over perfectly.

For some reason "traileffectnum" is missing so I don't have custom particle trails on plasma projectiles. Is it possible to check for this being missing? So I can fall back to the QS particle trails system instead. I know there is "trailparticles" but that is useless for traveling projectiles because you have to keep drawing the trail start and end positions all the time in QC. 

bindlist.lst

I wish this feature was available 20 years ago. Setting half the bindings via configs in complex mods was so clumsy. 

@Spike, I am getting some strange particle emitters under the world geo and I am not sure why.

The size of the decals seems wrong, DP vs QS-Spike blood decals feels like a paintball game.

The size of particles in general seems to be larger with DP vs QS-Spike being very different. I tweaked all the DP effects to be a certain size and now everything feels too large. 

particle system that can be used by mappers to emit custom particles from surfaces based upon their texture names, like rain, snow, sparks, etc. I should give a proper example of this.

Spike this is incredible stuff man, thank you for your efforts! I would love to see an example :O 

@Spike, the engine scaling of particles seems to be affecting everything. Here is an example of the floor circle effect to show the difference of the scaling between DP and QS-Spike engines. 

@kinn, you mean csqc? :P
rmqe has some simple csqc support that could possibly be used for huds or menus, but I don't think anyone really tried it.
if you want ssqc, then fte has 'tei_showlmp2' which allows adding/removing various persistent stuff relative to various parts of the screen. even dp has an svc_showlmp feature that nehahra used, but its only relative to the top-left of the screen. either form is really annoying to use.

@dwere, fte has had that for a long time. :P
kinda needs various cvar settings too though.

@Bloughsburgh, there's a weather example in the r2 zip. put the cfg in the right dir, use some console command or add a worldspawn key, restart the map, check the results.

@sock, precaches:
dp implicitly uses the effectinfo file to define the effect numbers, with both the client and server parsing the files themselves. this means that the excrement hits the extraction device if they differ. It also sucks big-time if you have multiple different particlesets loaded at once, or in other words DP has no user choice.
I could have QS parse that file server-side and auto-generate precaches that way, but that would mean two things: 1) the protocol is unconditionally changed even if the mod doesn't use pointparticles (the built-in effect names would need to be pre-assigned). 2) there's a whole load of redundant precaches if the mod uses the "effectinfo." prefix thing.

@sock,
particle scales: clearly I don't use DP enough, I'll need to look in to that.
dlight scales: I assume rockets give off different dlight sizes in both engines too, without any extra particle system. at least I assume that's what the floor circle effect screenshot was meant to be showing.
looks like 4-fold scaling with decals, maybe 2-fold with particles.

@sock,
emitters: o.O near the origin, too, but also far too regular.

@sock,
traileffectnum: this is mentioned in my readme as not supported, because its actually part of the entity state rather than a simple addition via a new svc. if I add the replacement-deltas protocol extension then I'd be sure to include this then, but I want to ensure everything else works before I screw everything else over (assuming I ever do).
until then, you can make a particles/trails.cfg (loaded the same way you're loading effectinfo) that contains "r_trail progs/foobar.mdl effectinfo.tr_foobar" lines.
ideally you'd use r_effect (and using count instead of countextra and its framerate-dependancies) for static entity emitters like torches or items, but I can understand you wanting closer dp compat. 

kinn, you mean csqc?

God knows. I haven't done any quake modding since 2005 so this may as well all be new to me :) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvqxsJChXH0 

Yeah... the snow is well done. tehspiderman1 ! :)

Thanks for Spike's stuff :) 

Better happen 

Is sv_protocol 999 supported now too? 

QS 0.92.0 added support for 999, not me. 

My bad, I thought 0.91 was latest. Manifestation page doesn't specify.

Now I can test the rest of my test map. 

 

Is there any option for a fog starting distance?

Also is there any option for a max fog density? Currently density is only based on a distance from the player view origin and anything at vast 999 protocol distances is put at max density. I would like to be able to set the max density to something like 0.2, have a density of 0 for like 1024 units or so, then gradually transition fog in from 1024 out to 8192.

Yeesh Qmaster whats next!?! a defined multiple fitted density curve??? http://scidavis.sourceforge.net/manual/pics/fit-multipeak-2.png 

Mark V has a "fogex command" with start and end.

fogex <fade>
fogex <start> <end>
fogex <red> <green> <blue>
fogex <fade> <red> <green> <blue>
fogex <start> <end> <red> <green> <blue>
fogex <start> <end> <red> <green> <blue>

Sock want to play with such a thing, so that's why the feature is there.

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60831&start=224

Sock toyed with it once a few years back, and I think even Sock couldn't find a compelling use for it.

So you do have an outlet to at least satisfy your curiosity. 

You can't mix distance with density in fixed pipeline fog; it's either one or the other but not both.

https://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man2/xhtml/glFog.xml

If GL_FOG_MODE is GL_LINEAR the start and end parameters (only) are used. Otherwise the density parameter (only) is used.

If you just implement everything in shaders you can supply your own fog equation which does this, but then of course you're raising the minimum hardware requirements.

This is similar to some of the discussions that went on during RMQ work: maximizing hardware coverage and desired features are often contradictory requirements, and you often can't have both. 

"Application Error"

"The application was unable to start correctly (0xc000007b). Click OK to close the application."

regular Quakespasm works. What am I missing?