It was meant as a joke. It does fit the story though. 

That is why I included it, I thought it was funny and not out of place with the story. If it bothered you I can removed it for the next release. 

For anyone who has tried this MOD already and is wondering what the new version is about, check the readme file (separate link at the top) it contains a list of new features. This version is mostly about the help and information on the stealth system. I wanted to make sure the first play through was not so frustrating and easier to understand.

Extra console commands of interest:

training - teleport to training area
pixels - no more pixel vision!
feet - foot step sounds

If anyone has more feedback or suggestions please let me know. 

http://www.quaddicted.com/tronyn-reviews/in_the_shadows_by_sock 

@onetruepurple, Wow thank you, I was not expecting this :D

I have fixed most of your problems with the latest version. You can keep global fog turned off for all maps (console command) and the vault button is really easy to find. (my mistake) 

I wrote a couple of articles for my ModDB page about some of the features for the MOD In the Shadows, links below.

Discussing the new AI systems:
http://www.moddb.com...s/looking-smart

Talking about exploration and how it can integrate with storyline:
http://www.moddb.com...tion-is-the-key 

http://www.moddb.com/mods/its/features/looking-smart

http://www.moddb.com/mods/its/features/exploration-is-the-key 

Clearly a typo in the review score. Should read 21/20. 

Yeah - i knew you could play it normally, but after accepting the necklace/cloak? at e1m2 start, i was stuck with it till i figured to reloaded the start map.

Played e1m2 first, but enjoyed e1m1 more. Thats a nice rework. 

@ijed, thanks I was not really paying attention and just copy and paste the links which was a bad idea in retrospect.

@negke, I don't think the Tronyn reviews go higher than 18/20! :P I am just glad it was reviewed because I got the impression that Tronyn was not interested in the MOD. It might have got a higher mark if the reviewer was more into stealth because the MOD really shines when sneaking around the new maps.

What has surprised me the most about func is the lack of people who actually like stealth mechanics, I assumed it would be more. It does raise an interesting point, 'how much change to a game can you introduce before it alienates the original players of the game!'

@stevenaaus, what skill level did you play? find many secrets? any demo's? Did you replay with different skill levels? 

I think this is caused by lots of games with shitty, shitty stealth mechanics.

Definitely not the case with ITS.

I played Thief recently - a game I missed when it came out. It was good but lacked the rounding off of the corners that modern game design has introduced.

The main thing it had was even when I failed I knew why. Might be surprising since it doesn't have any stupid popup tutorials or glowing icons telling exactly what to do, but it is intuitive, which ITS also has.

I spose the point I'm trying to make is that heavy handed icons and tutorial dialogs that lead the player by the hand aren't liked by anyone, and are only necessary when a game or mod is designed by committee (like most AAA games) and the focus is diffused.

Which is also what creates bad stealth game mechanics, and therefore the stigma.

IMO of course :) 

I have spoken to a lot of people so far about ITS and the conversation usually goes this way, "I did the tutorial, started the next map, died a lot and decided stealth was not for me"

I think this can mean several things; the map is too hard, the skill level is wrong, the player is dying and not knowing why, the player cannot understand how to improve the situation or just got fed up with the learning curve.

I am always amazed by people and feedback, I posted a stealth run video of me doing a nokill run and I got comments saying it looks too easy and the AI are dumb because they don't notice me. In retrospect it was probably a bad choice of things to post but I assumed people would enjoy it because it is fast, executed quickly and without any mistakes! Maybe people need to see how difficult it is? 

@ijed, I am confused because when I read your first comments about ITS you were having a hard time, died a lot and found it frustrating. You say ITS has good mechanics but was that after playing it for a while or initially? Was there a learning curve or a moment when it got better?

In the latest version I have added a ton of extra onscreen hints, shadow hint books, F1 screens and extra tutorials, doesn't that make it too much hand holding? 

well I thought ITS demo was awesome, but I kept in mind that it was a demo, so that held it back a bit (ie, not a complete episode or map).... I thought 18 was a good score, recognizing the extremely high quality while also reviewing it _as_ a q1sp, rather than as a mod. Then again I did give Marcher 19/20, so I probably am a bit stingy. 

It's neither too easy nor too hard. But naturally, someone who isn't used to stealth games will have to practice a bit until he fully understands the mechanics. I think the main reason there's so little feedback is because people are generally lazy and don't like to stray from their usual playing habits too much. If a game mode isn't as instantly gratifying as the familiar, long-mastered standard q1sp, it's not as interesting and will put people off more quickly if it doesn't grant the same level of easy/immediate success.
Most unfortunate, but also somewhat understandable. I guess I wouldn't have spent so much time with it, either, if I hadn't been "forced" to as a tester. But this was good, as it made me grow to it and eventually really appreciate the stealth gameplay. Like I said earlier in the thread, I'm not a stealth player by heart, quite the contrary normally (although I did enjoy FC3 recently), but after a while I got the hang of it and now I'm actually pretty much a hardcore stealth ninja. I'd even go so far as to challenge sock to a stealth deathmatch if there was such a mode! :D

All I can say is that it's a lot of fun, has good replayablity, and it certainly isn't as slow as one would imagine - if you master it, it can even be (almost) as fast as regular q1sp. 

The mechanics are fine - I got lost looking for that damn button :)

I haven't played the latest version yet so can't comment on HUD elements.

It did take me some learning to figure out the stealth play, but not much. I appreciated the stealth pretty quickly... looking at my earlier comments in the thread they're all about the button, not the play itself.

What I got stuck on were some level design quirks of it being a demo - which it seems you identified and then solved with the update.

The actual game mechanics are clean, quick to understand and fun to execute.

Also, dying isn't necessarily a purely punitive because its how you learn - both the layout, and what works vs what doesn't in tactics.

Stealth DM? That'd be pretty fucking sweet :) 

1. sock you rock

2. finally found some proper time to play it (still not finished second level, but can't wait to finish it and explore it all)

3. very, nicely, superly done maps and mod. this is quintessence of atmosphere, unique gameplay and concentrated quakiness.

at first i was puzzled: wtf, where's stealth? and it wasn't obvious how to play it (it still not rly obvious cuz i panicked and stated typing various console comands like 'stealth'). i thought i missed something and started killing mobs like in usual quake, then after i found medallion, everything started working as intented. i still do not understand why there're are two blue key doors in the beginning, probly i'm too old... the words 'youi have two ways' didn't rly help as there weren't words like 'you've enabled stealth mode' or something.

anyway, maybe me randomly entering 'stealth' comand on the console or finding medalion enabled it and fun have started funally. i rly liked the thing with trsparent walls, very clever idea to make them enabled in stealth mode. the mode itself works nice if 1vs1 backstab. but there're ways to exploit it in a bad way, like, aggro pack of mobs, then wait till they're going to their initial spawns and backstab them like 3 in a row. if that's intented that's fine, cuz it was somewhat fun to have that feeling of being smartass.

i also liked crazy amount of secrets. of course i never found them all, but when i did there was that nice feeling. you really hid them nicely.

atmosphere with all its sounds and textures (pixelly) is just pinnacle of quake. nearest texture filtering rocks! anyone saying nearest_mipmap_nearest sucks should stop playing quake. new and edited textures are very nice and make possible to make fine details! very nice play with half-transparent stuff like windows and items. particles are as well made looking like they're not possible in quake engine.

the most important stuff i think is that all what's done, i.e.: setting, sounds, atmosphere, blends perfectly with offered gameplay. it's just cool to hang in the alcove waiting for your turn to backstab. or just hang in that 'window with view' and wait to jump down and cause havoc. levels worthy to live in! this is what makes sock rock! :) 

forgot one thing, is it intended that monsters that are patrolling ignore distract shots? that's a bit annoying cuz it works only on idling (standing) mobs in 95% of cases. 

I played through it and tried real hard and have actually beaten the maps both normally AND stealth mode...

Here's a zip of 6 demos of my adventures. 66mb zip!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103186490/itsdemo.zip

scamp_start is playing the start map and fucking around forever looking for secrets.

scamp_s1m1_s is me playing s1m1 in stealth mode. I had beaten the map previously on normal mode in version 1.0.

scamp_s1m1_n is a normal playthrough I did directly afterwards, it's a lot of secret finding... and then dying once I find secrets. :D

scamp_s1m2_s_fail is my attempt to stealth s1m2 without having even seen the map previously. It goes utterly and terribly bad!

scamp_s1m2_n is my normal run of the map. Pretty standard stuff.

scamp_s1m2_s_win is right after playing the map normal and actually properly stealthing... there are a few false starts (read: horrible deaths), but eventually I find my groove!


I really enjoyed the maps, playing normally I really enjoyed all the cool additions and the real polish you've put into each area of the maps... and then stealthing through becames this awesome experience after because you have a sense of what might be around the bend. I also love the TON of secrets there are to be found, and most of them sense to have some real logic put into them combined with a real nice sense of repeating motifs.

Gushing aside, I do feel like sometimes it can be hard to get the backstab on enemies who you've stuck up on. I'm not sure it should be changed though, as that adds alot to the rush of actually getting the stabs. I also have no idea (without watching your videos) on how I would ever manage a nokill run, as you'll often see in my demos, I often relied on 'stab a guy... get seen by others, run away... stab them when they decide to hang out at easier place to stab'. Poison was fun the few times I got to use it, though I'm not sure I always used it correctly until the end of the second map!

Oh, what are the runes for? I got both of them in separate playthoughs... although now that I think of it I didn't bother going back to the start map with them since I was recording demos... ok don't answer that I guess! 

oh, and I will say, after the advice of 'play them normal THEN try stealth' the stealth mode is way more fun than when I tried it before during the 1.0 release! Love it! 

 

@Tronyn, the score is fine, I am happy it got reviewed and you liked it. You actually mentioned something I never thought about, in S1M2 the ogres being connected to the theme of experiments in the castle which does sound cool.

@negke, @ijed, what was your thoughts on stealth DM gameplay?

I looked at AC3 and they had the you sneak around as a civilian and then reveal yourself and attack hoping you got the right target / player.

Personally I think ITS DM should be faster paced and not slow like traditional stealth. Part of the fun for me with ITS is the movement speed coupled with the stealth mechanics.

Idea 1: Everyone is a set of floating eyes and when close to another player they become fully visible so everyone has to sneak around for backstabs. Any items that are picked up will reveal that player for 5 seconds. Poison bolts drops a players health making them easier to kill with an axe.

Idea 2: Everyone is a set of floating eyes and when they pick up poison they are revealed and can do crazy damage (like a quad) with an axe for 15 seconds and then back to floating eyes.

Idea 3: Stealth kill competition. Where each player has to kill as many AI as possible in 2 mins and the AI keep spawning randomly around the map and doing patrols. If the player is revealed then all monsters will attack. Other players could lead AI into other players and watch them die or try to get the maximum kills instead. When a player is killed by AI they lose kill points. Should be loads of trigger traps as well to catch AI or other players. 

@vondur, wow thanks for looking at the MOD, I thought you were MIA on some wild vodka Xmas party marathon! :P

The initial not knowing how to start stealth is certainly a design fault. Originally the MOD was going to be just old fashioned quake and the stealth a secret you could find in the vault. Over time the stealth mode got better and I think is more original for the MOD and the focus changed. The lack of objective at the beginning I have fixed in my HD version and will be right in the next release.

The backstab killing streak is by design. I do not want to restrict the way players want do play so if it is easier to agro, run and hide and then clean up afterwards, that is perfectly fine. The Stealth gameplay is designed to present as many options as possible.

I never really understood the pixel mode until Kell suggested I try it. I checked out the console command with the Fitz engine and then Quake felt much better. I am surprised it is not the default in Fitz because I regret not seeing all the custom content I have downloaded over the years properly. All the assets have been designed for this mode and they don't look right all blurry in the other modes which is way I force the texture filtering to pixel vision by default!

It is by design that patrolling mobs do not take notice of distraction bolts because it would be too easy. The fact that some mobs cannot be distracted and have to be followed or avoided I think adds to the tension of the encounter. 

@scampie, thanks for taking a look at the MOD and the demos are priceless for feedback. I noticed a couple of things I need to fix which is always a good thing.

I was laughing like crazy with your stealth run on S1M1 and your final solution for getting through the map. It was cool to watch and even thou stealth is a slower pace, I still enjoy watching how others approach encounters.

I think most of your problems with backstabs is the angle you approach the AI and your distance from their back. You don't need to run up to them so close and when you turn them around with distraction bolts, you need to pause a bit to let them turn. Personally I always make sure I am directly facing their back before running full speed at them.

The poison section of the start tutorial went wrong in your demo and I need to fix that, you should not have to kill the wizard like that. Also as you discovered not everything in the map is useable unless you play on higher skill levels and in stealth mode. For example the electric traps.

One thing you were not doing is moving mobs around with distraction bolts. I saw the help message come up a couple of times but I don't think you connected it to what you were doing. If you fire a bolt at the AI and duck behind a corner they will investigate the location of where the bolt came from. With large groups this means you can split them up easily and move them around for single kills.

The runes are for an extra area in the start map called the Shadow tomb, it is not in the demo as I want to keep it as a surprise for the final release. 

play them normal THEN try stealth

I totally agree, the maps are designed to be played twice and there are many route/item differences between modes (vanilla/stealth). Trying the stealth mode before vanilla is really a hardcore thing to do!