"Fuck the matrix.

I mean really.
Fuck it. It's crap. it really is."

Tronyn for President !!!!!!
You got my vote.
I seen the first one ( never paid to see it, seen it on TV, still felt ripped off ) When the second one comes on, I'll change channel and watch the test pattern instead. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. But thats the beauty of freedom of choice and individuality, each to his own, and his own to each. 

you forgot to mention that it was shot well, well the first one anyway. But I'm with you anyway.

Also, saw Vertigo last night. Pretty good, just not what I was expecting. Fantastic visuals, especially for the time but it's a bit long and windy for what it is. 

You went to an action flick looking for a meaningful philosophy lesson, and you're calling other people retarded? 

I think that's the problem, if it was a straighforward action flick, that'd be fine. But it's very pretentious, and IMHO that takes away from it. 

If you want a good action movie, fine. both matrix films are fairly entertaining. but the pretentiousness, and how stupid people go on and on about how clever and philosophical it is, is really what ruins it. I'm not saying it has no virtues, including being shot well and of course its action scenes, even some interesting ideas, but as an entire package you've got to include pretentiousness in there, and that just stinks. and WTF was that about vampires and ghosts being explained as exiled computer programs? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. that was just another example of them trying to be clever, and market the film as if it is thought provoking.

I didn't go to an action film looking for a philosophy lesson, but that is how the matrix presents itself. 

The Matrix relates to a few thoughts that are very universal and hadn't been wrapped up in one package before, and it was well done. However, the idea of a sequel delving deeper into the details of their specific embodiment of these messages almost seems to undo the universal message and has yet to tempt me. 

I didn't get a vibe of pretentiousness. Maybe I've been exposed to so many truely pretentious films that it rolls right off my back and I can no longer recognize it in smaller doses. What was pretentious about it? 

an example would be the architect's speech in Reloaded. What he revealed was not really all that complex (well maybe in plot terms but not so much otherwise), however the way it was presented was deliberately done so that it sounded confusing and intellectual. 

I saw JFK last night, and took kell's advice of watching it with a grain of salt. Personally, I liked it, quite a lot. I think it works quite well as a film but no so good as a documentary (especially if you hear how much was inaccurate or fabricated in Stone's commentary). However, the question I guess is whether it would have worked as well as a film if the material was not about real events? 

What made the delivery seem falsely intellectual?

You're not just talking about the multiple Neos on the monitors, are you? I hope not, I thought that part was really cool. 

I meant the language (mainly) and structure it was delivered in. The terminology etc makes it sound complex and confusing when it's really not all that articulate an idea.

A lot of people I know that watched it didnt get the ending because they thought it was too complicated, which wither means that they're stupid or the creators got what they intended. 

The terminology etc makes it sound complex and confusing when it's really not all that articulate an idea.

As you said, if you're saying something simple then there's no real need to use complex language; but to me, that was part of the character. It would rather be an anticlimax to find that the architect, the creator of the Matrix, not only looks like Colonel Sanders, but talks like him, too.

You don't meet the smartest person in the world and expect him to use a vocabularly on the same level as a 4th year student, just because that's the average reading level for the population. 

I probably contradicted myself a bit in that message. Deal with it. 

The architect certainly spoke in a way that was hard to follow, but I don't think he spoke in a particularly intelligent way. A lot of the longer, more uncommon words were just put in there for the sake of it, where much clearer words could have been chosen to convey the message. A more intelligent way of speaking would choose a longer word because it conveyed something more subtle: a more complicated, subtle or elusive meaning. The architect from the Matrix Reloaded was made to speak big clevor words because it makes him, and the movies underlying philosophy and 'plot' seem big and clevor. Welcome to pretentiousness, for lesson two we'll be visiting the Art Department. 

Words can't be clevah, only sentances.

If you want to create the impression that he's so intelligent, using longer and less common words would be a good route to go. And that's not pretentious. What they should have done was have Neo say everything back to him in a simpler language and probably using a metaphor (the Star Trek method). 

 

thats very typical.
you dont like *somthing* that others adore and you feel pissedoff and start to HATE it and even everyone who loves it...

if it makes you feel any better: you are fine if you dont dig matrix, dont worry :) 

talk about taking if out of context. I dont recall anyone (apart from maybe Tronyn) saying that they hate all Matrix-lovers or that they couldnt stand the film. I think it was more a discussion on what aspects of the film they did and didnt like.

RPG,

I was going to reply, but starbuck said most of all I had to say. I'll just add that considering the rest of the film had dialogue that looked like it was stolen from George Lucas's safe, some of the "intellectual" conversations looked really out of place. The first one's a bit better in this respect, but still pretentious IMHO. 

/me shrugs

I had no real issues with that part of the movie, so suit yourself. 

It was someone on this board I think that said it best. They said something along the lines of:

"The Matrix wasn't nearly as cool as it thought it was."

I still use that phrase to explain to people what I don't like about The Matrix. That said, I do enjoy the movies quite a bit. Good action and a more interesting plot line then most blockbuster movies make up for all the things I don't like about the movie. 

I didn't really read this entire thread, or care to, but here is my view on whatever was said on the matrix.

Basicly it was a very good action movie, that is true. But to say it sucks when you like Dark City instead is just retarded. I only saw Dark City after the matrix, so I don't care if Matrix stole their ideas (I am sure they didn't tho, they actually stole most of it from a japense cartoon, and i don't think they had the time to steal dark citys ideas, it only came out a little before the matrix.)

The reason I think so many people hate it, is because of the many people who love it because they think it is smart. It is not smart at all, but either is Dark City.

The Matrix and dark city also have very nice styles. While dark city is very dark, the matrix is very clean and sci fi (i would also say somewhat industrial).

and about the movie being pretentious... it never is! I suppose a lot of people might think the end of reloaded is pretentious, but it really isn't. The reason it is complex is because he only gives little info on certain things, it is not that he uses big words.

Besides, what did you expect him to sound like? He is the creator of the matrix, did you expect him to say "hey neo waz up? did ya know your the 6th one, and that hot dark haired girlfriend of yours is going die". OF COURSE he was going to sound smart. Of COURSE he was going to use big words (I don't know why they made him look like the KFC guy tho)

anyway, to sum up my post, tronyn is an idiot who stills in his dark room all day having 26s listening to NIN (and i know this as a fact), and the matrix was really not that bad. 

You're wrong because... because... you're just WRONG! Ok?! Cunt. 

a good movie. its old, weird and abstract. its called Un Chien Andalou, and its from 1928, and its 15 minutes or so.


...yeah 

Got me a movie
I want you to know
Slicing up eyeballs
I want you to know
Girlie so groovy
I want you to know
Don't know about you
But I am un chien Andalusia

a very good song based on that very movie :)
more info:

Based on French surrealistic film "Un Chien Andalou" (An Andalusian Dog), by Spanish director Luis Bunuel (1928). The film starts with the scene in which an eyeball is being cut open.

Andalusia is the Southern region of Spain including Sierra Nevada & valley of the Guadalquivir.

"I wish Bunuel was still alive. He made this film about nothing in particular. The title itself is a nonsense. With my stupid, pseudo-scholar, naive, enthusiast, avant-garde-ish, amateurish way to watch 'Un Chien Andalou' (twice), I thought: 'Yeah, I will make a song about it,' he sings: "un chien andalou"...It sounds too French, so I will sing "un chien andalusia", it sounds good, no?" - Black Francis, translated from a Spanish interview 

damn good film, just got released here in Australia. It's like a cross between Serpico and French Connection and you really cant go wrong with that.