http://speedq1.spawnpoint.org/files/sm46.zip

in other news, ill be away until next saturday :)
ciao 

Which makes it all the more surprising that he quietly longs for the early days of gaming.

Though he's widely regarded as an innovator, Carmack is a big fan of old-school arcade games. He's also an unlikely supporter of Nintendo's recently announced philosophy that games have become too difficult.

id's John Carmack
"I agree strongly with that point of view, but I'm in the minority in the PC space," he told me last week at QuakeCon � the annual Woodstock-like gathering of "Doom" and "Quake" fans. "I want a game you can sit down with, pick up and play. [Role playing games], for example, got to where they had to have a book ship with the game."

i agree totally with Carmack.
what other people/dvelopers etc dont realize is this principle is important:

To do something excellent and simple is harder than do something excellent and complicated.

And why is simplicity prized?

Becuase simplicity = accessibility and fun. The simple game is a tool of the players skills, the complicated game is a burden on the player.

Case Study and prime example no1:

Quake 1

=) 

Yes, I like things kept simple also. 

Make a shooter like q1 today, and everyone will label it shallow troglodite of a game. And it wont sell regardless of the advanced engine and pretty art.
People always want more and better.
IMHO 

arent they more like traditional shooters with pretty engines?

I say a good game will be well received regardless of whether it is simple or complicated. 

Case Study and prime example no1:

Quake 1

=)

Right on. Quake's accessibility, immersion and repeatable/extendable gameplay is why it was actually the first compuer game I ever bought and the first I ever played to completion.

People always want more and better.


Well...gamers always want more; better is so subjective...opinions are like assholes etc. etc. The problem is, it tends to be more of the obvious things, like more polys, more weapons, more detail, more of the same...
If that's what petulant gamers holler for, that's what developers will sell them. Until they are, as id appear to be, sick and tired of it. 

The gamers are correct to always want more. You can't rehash what's already been done and expect the public to lap it up. Even if what you're rehashing is your precious Quake 1.

But more doesn't have to mean more guns, more polys, more blood. FPS games are made up of a lot of attributes, you could choose any number of them to do more in. And that's the direction that Doom 3 seems to be going in.

Some of you guys are like old men pining away for an old flame who wasn't really so hot to begin with. You're not in love with the game, you're in love with the half false memory of the game. 

got anyone particular in mind?

gonna name names? :P

I love the game believe me, not a "half false memory", whatever you think that is.

Your also missing the point Carmack is making:

Simplicity is good.
"more" (of anything) is NOT neccesairly better, in fact its often worse. In most fields of design the "classic" designs are often the most simple, enduring, timeless ones. 

It's not Friday until I've pissed somebody off.

I didn't miss Carmack's point at all. "More" and simplicity are not mutually exclusive. 

They all sucked but...

Starbucks showed promise, nice bridges, the gameplay blew.

Harbs well yeah marvellous, not being able to reach the weapons in the middle was a high point.

Scampies, disappointingly, was actually quite cool. Totara Forest Arena for Quake! Could definitely go places. 

Good morning babes! 

There are other simple FPS games other than Quake. In fact some of them are pretty recent.

And teh Carmack thing....I dunno what vision he has of simple, but I don't think having a "use" key is really the ultimate in complexity. Seems like he's going a bit too far there IMHO. 

The gamers are correct to always want more. You can't rehash what's already been done and expect the public to lap it up.

It appears as though you're confusing "more" with "different". 

No. I think everyone else is confusing more with "more complexity." 

i am not pissed off, far from it. I enjoy debate. =)

But do you ever just admit you are wrong about something? Sometines it can actually be quite liberating.

...lol.

BTW, i knew this conversation would degenerate into a debate about semantics. Most philosophical conversations do. =) 

your Coagula Map still roxors!
=) 

I've got a craving for violence. I wanna see the most disgusting porn ever made. I want midgets taking dumps in the mouth of a voloptous blonde. I want animals, car batteries and home appliances. I want to see red hot fire-pokers showed up orifices I've never even heard of!

I'm available as a personal life coach by the way... 

spelling teacher

voloptous ??
showed ??

;) 

doing it one handed...

:P 

where do the car batteries "fit in"?

maybe i shouldnt ask. 

They don't 'fit' anywhere - it's the voltage that matters... 

You obviously haven't seen Wrath touching his toes then ? 

have perversions, will travel. 

You obviously haven't seen Wrath touching his toes then ? 

The results of visioning wrath touching his toes ............

Never press the F5 key, or, have the above mentioned vision