No guys, I'm using func_instance, developed for Half Life and modified by our buddy ItEndsWithTens here. It's a .map preprocessing, before compiling. It has the needed features, works great, it's tried and true.

Pritchard, it's all a matter of balance. I can compose a unique room out of prefab chunks, use a corridor section multiple times with different lighting, etc, the way it's done with modern engines. 

Hmm... I see. I still don't think it's a good idea, but it's really up to you and if done well it can come close to rivalling entirely hand-made maps.

Sadly i'm not sure how you could avoid the pink boxes issue, you might just have to live with it. I think that there would need to be significant changes to how entities and brushes work in Quake to make it possible to replace brushes like that, especially if the current pre-processor isn't meant to do that. 

I worry that you might be trying to solve the problem in the wrong place. If you've having trouble in the editor seeing what a func_instance represents, perhaps that's something that the editor should provide support for.

Having said that, the .map file is a pretty straight-forward text format. So I'd imagine it would be possible to create a script in e.g. Python which removes the brushes from func_instance entities, and run it prior to qbsp. This might be a better solution for the specific problem at hand than a modification to qbsp itself. 

Yes, it is.

And yes, that's what I'll end up trying to do, considering I don't know and don't care to know about C#. Python seems the right choice.

I just e-mailed Rob (aka ItEndWithTens) about his func_instance entity. More info and more brains on it doesn't hurt. 

The only place I've extensively used instances for major portions of a map is in Half-Life 2, where Hammer supports the display of instance contents in the editor (even though you need an external utility to compile the maps, since the singleplayer HL2 compilers don't support the entity). Building an entire map out of them when all you can see is little pink boxes is beyond my level of patience. :)

Support for instances would need to be added to editors for the idea to really work well. I know Xaerox has mentioned a passing interest in adding support to Jack for instances, "adding .map as another model format" or something to that effect, but I don't imagine it's a priority for him, or anyone else. Also, as Pritchard has said, you don't want to end up with that "snapped together from prefab 128-unit cubes" look so many games have; instances are useful for all sorts of things, but I wouldn't personally recommend making the whole map out of modular sections.

Nonetheless, I'm not looking to force a mapping philosophy on users by way of the tool, so I suppose I could add support for something like what you're describing. For example, and I'm just brainstorming here, maybe users could specify an entity type on the command line they'd like removed from their top-level map. Tie your placeholder geometry to a custom entity in your editor, say "func_greybox" for argument's sake, then run Quinstance with your usual parameters plus --remove_entity func_greybox and simply have it kept out of the final, collapsed .map file.

I need to get a couple of bug fixes released anyway, I could take a look at adding this at the same time. I'll give it a shot myself, but does this sound like an approach you'd find useful? 

Whether you'll find it useful or not is a moot point, as I've just finished adding an entity removal option. :D I'll update the actual Quinstance thread later on, but for now the release is available for everyone to play with: Quinstance 0.3.0

Please do let me know how many things are horribly broken! 

Yes, very useful. I was getting ready to implement a new tool, but that's awesome, gonna try it right away.

Thanks, man. 

My func_greybox instances were removed, but there is a problem. This is how the prefab is supposed to look, but when I place func_instance like this it appears like this

Looks like intersection between the func_instance and another func_ is f..king the whole thing. 

- of course there is one. I positioned func_instance 32 units under the func_greybox and lifted the prefab 32 units in its .map

Intersection avoided, everything works. Bug reported. :) 

Damn it, that's disappointing. Would you be willing to send me the files so I could take a look? 

Just sent you. 

Turns out I was screwing up. It works fine. Thanks, Tens. 

You're welcome, any time! As I mentioned in my email to Adib, the test map he sent along revealed by way of no harm another bug, unrelated to the issue at hand, so I'm throwing together version 0.3.1 for release sometime today. When it's done I'll go update my own thread, if anyone's interested. 

Out of pure curiosity, what was the screw-up? 

I used the -r switch on a test map but wasn't using on the real map. Greybox asset and production asset were clipping each other. 

Something weird. If I travel in one direction inside my map, at some point everything disappear and I'm on the other end of the map's working area in JACK. I mean, outside the level, looking at the level from a distance, as if I'm teleported to zero or something.

Like I'm blowing a limit and being teleported around to the other side.

I already tried to use Arcane Dimensions settings (if it works for Swampy, gonna work for my level):

-heapsize 256000 -zone 4096

and even tried to increase zone to 8192. No luck.

Does anybody know what's happening? 

Is it close to map boundaries regardless of the settings you are using? 

You're moving more than 4096 units away from the centre of the world would be my guess, i.e. your map exceeds Quake's normal limits. The same thing would happen in any map if you were to move long enough in one direction using noclip.

If it just happens on one side of the map, it might mean that you simply need to centre your brushwork, i.e. select everything in-editor and move it to a more central position.

Unless I completely misunderstood what you meant. 

Yes, it's close to map boundaries and it's close to 4096, but about these heapsize and zone settings, don't they take care of it? 

No, the only ways you can fix it are:

1) make sure you move your brushes away from the limit on all sides

or

2) if your map is too large and exceeds the limit in two opposite directions, you can use an engine that supports protocol 999 (like current versions of Quakespasm). 

*as far as I know, I should add. I could be talking utter nonsense.

I should perhaps have waited for a more experienced and knowledgeable person to answer, but I sometimes get all giddy when I actually (think I) know the answer to something (as opposed to just asking lots of basic questions, which is what I usually do around here). "Ooh, ooh! I know this one!"

But yeah, to the best of my knowledge, that was the point of adding protocol 999 to QS, because there's no other way a map that exceeds the +-4096 limit (like ORL's Zeangala) is going to be playable. 

Adib: just realised a very similar discussion took place just a few days ago:

http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=17062&end=17071

Sorry for posting thrice in a row. 

 

I am opening fteqccgui.exe in mac with wine, but I don't know if my problem is this compiler or are the qc files I downloaded, I can't compile fine; because all qc files have string errors and using /**/ I cannot solve my problem.
H3LP