nice one preach...

I had one alternative in mind, like a few standard trigger entity boxes in quoth, something like a cube 128x128x128 and a thin plate 256x32x256. If you put them into the fgd, it's easy to place them since you see the bounding box in worldcraft. I don't remember if rotation shows though.
Anyway, then you can have 100 triggers and it only uses one bmodel. Of course, you'd still use brush ones for custom shapes.
I don't remember about radiant, if it shows entity bounding boxes. 

I have posted my reviews of all 3 maps. Along with some ratings & comments on the Quoth/lost chapters new monsters:

http://www.planetquake.com/underworld/index.html.

the gug is awesome. :) 

edit:

http://www.planetquake.com/underworld/quakerev051216.html 

fitzquake has increased max_edicts, but no increases to precache models or other related limits. 

precache model is 256 right? Sounds reasonable I guess, but maybe it could be increased in a future release of FQ? :)

Maybe it's ok then, but perhaps the next version of Quoth should feature Preaches additional code if it works - especially since triggers are AABBs anyway so the model is completely unnecessary.

I have never hit any model precache limit before, but I had ecit probs back in the old dosquake days. Presumably Kell and Necros have had probs at some time or another, but what about mappers making vanilla quake maps? CZG? 

my take on this is if you're making a map so large that you need to resort to ugly hacks like that, well, just split your map up. 

Is it really an ugly hack? Why does quake need to precache a model for something which can be definted by two points? Surely the code is ugly in the first place?

Still, if you think it's a crap hack then fair enough, I will try and fit it all into the regular number of slots.

Anyway, splitting the environment up will really spoil my design. I am really enjoying making the map atm, and I hope to make my "best map evar!" - at least in terms of layout, lighting and architecture (hopefully gameplay too, but god knows how that will turn out at this stage). It's supposed to be epic. The design is currently an underground city, but each building is like a separate level in itself. There are at least 3 of these buildings in a large cavern (which is kind of another level that links them) and some smaller buildings. I suppose I could split it, but then I couldn't have all the little links and secrets between sections.

Currently I have built about half of the library building, and that's pretty big already. I still have a long way to go, so maybe it's too early to go around asking about engine limits when I have only got a few thousand brushes placed, lit and textured. I am just excited because it is the first time in ages I have gotten into Quake mapping and started really having a good time.

I can send you some shots if you are interested (since it will be using Quoth ents when I get that far). 

it's nothing personal, dude. i just feel that the real solution to the problem is to change the engine itself, since that is the limit it imposes, not to try to work around the problem by shoehorning in a fix by making two seperate trigger entities.

on reflecting on it though, i guess it would be a good way to save on precaches, and isn't really hard to implement. since i know nearly jack-shit on engine code, i'll keep it in mind for later.
heh, maybe i caught a bit of the 'not invented here' bug. :P 

is there a way to use the second polyp skin, as well, to have polyps in two different colors in a map? 

ok, I want to set the colour to red, but when I do ("color" - "5") tyrlight quits with an error saying that there aren't 3 values for color.

How do you get marshlights to work properly?

I thought color in tyrlight was set with "_color" anyway. Grr.

...it is set with _color... AND
"v0.90
- Downgraded "not 3 values for color" to a warning for compatability with some QC mods."

Hmm... HELP! I'm using tyrlite 0.97 

the info_screenshake doesn't seem to work. Maybe I didn't set it up correctly?

ltime 12
multiplier 2 

negike: no, you can't customize skins on any of the monsters

than: have no idea about the compiler thing... unless you need coloured lighting, use aguire's light program? (or does aguire's do coloured lighting too now?)

as for screenshake, not sure why it's not working except:
try using higher values for multiplier (10ish) and go from there
also, make sure that there is a direct link from the trigger to the info_screenshake. if a monster or lightning or anything other than the player triggers it, the screen won't shake, same like how centerprints won't print for the player unless he is the direct activator. 

cheers, the screenshake works now... 10 is a bit much though! 

You mentioned in the above post that the info_screenshake needs to be activated directly by the player for it to work. I have this set up and it works fine now, but surely there is a problem with coop. Will other players experience the screenshake?

What about the shake from the Gug?

Is it possible to implement screenshake that emenates from a point in the map and affects all nearby players?

I vaguely remember screenshake being used in Scourge (not sure, since it was a while since I last played it) and it also moved the player around a bit. I don't need this in particular, but were it a spawnflag, I would probably check it :)

Finally, I had a look in the Marcher txt file the other day and noticed Kinn mentioned something about entity grouping. I'm not sure, but I think it was a feature of the qc he was using. He said in the readme that it allowed the map to work on low capacity engines (i.e. not Aguire's GLQuake or DP). Do you know anything about this? Does Quoth use it?

Currently I am about 80% complete of the first large section of my map (basically the size of a fairly large level) and am wondering whether or not to just finish that section and release it as a level, or go ahead and proceed with the next large section (probably the same size again).

Currently I'm only at 6000 brushes (19,000 surfs after compile) so I have a bit more room in that respect, but probably not enough precache slots to add all the funcs I might need if I decide to double the size of the level.

I'm also debating whether or not to split the map up as you originally suggested, so that more people can play it, and it can be played in FitzQuake (as God intended!) It would be cool for the level to be one HUGE environment, and certainly more impressive to walk around, but I wonder if you were right in suggesting that I split it.

Maybe splitting it would allow me to take my mind of Q1 mapping for a while and do something more beneficial for my career :) 

you could try using the seamless level transition. it will carry your kills over across the maps, but other things like secrets and playing times won't, so it's not that greatest solution.

as for screenshake, i didn't really put much thought into it, tbh. it's just a minor atmosphere thing, so i hadn't even considered in coop.

the gug should shake all players though. 

actually, i never really understood what kinn was talking about for that, except for the horde spawn things.

so i don't think quoth does it, but maybe i inadvertantly did it, who knows... o.o 

in his readme, Kinn says that... well, here's a quote:

Impulse 152: Toggle Entity Grouping

Entity grouping is ON by default; This enables a form of edict compression that allows the map to be playable in engines without increased MAX_EDICTS. It should have no visible effect on gameplay. If you turn entity grouping OFF, be warned; the map will only be loadable in high-capacity engines, and you will most likely suffer a performance hit. Requires a map restart.


Sounds interesting, whilst at the same time sounds like it won't help with precache ents at all.

I'm guessing that it's related to the monster spawning, as you say. Maybe monsters of the same type that are spawn triggered using the same targetname can be loaded without requiring an edict for each one until they are spawned. 

"v0.90 - Downgraded "not 3 values for color" to a warning for compatability with some QC mods."

Although I fixed that it v0.90, it looks like I fucked it up again in version 0.95. Easy to fix though - I'll see if I can get to it this weekend. 

nice one, tyrann :) 

Fixed version of TyrLite is on now available on my site. 

Thanks, Tyrann. I will go back to using your wonderful program now - even though Aguire's light program isn't noticeably and better or worse :) 

Top work guys, Thanks. Love the gug, e1m1quoth and kell's test maps. (Haven't played the extra maps yet).

{..get down on my belly and beg mercy, as I have a criticism}

The plasma gun - am I missing something? It's a shitty model, animation and sound, and, umm, it looks like a penis. [[[Ikka's mod would fit in ~more~.. (and it never got overused in the first place)]]] 

THE SPIRIT ADVENTERES OF THE chanel 

wtf? 

I get this error when trying Quoth per the instructions. Quake launches, and then in a dialog box I get:

Quake Error
W_GetLumpinfo: inv_laser not found