pretty rough on me, let me know where to email with demo/discussions 

Will hopefully get a chance to play the map later, I made some quick notes on your screenshots https://imgur.com/a/652whG4 

Drew, I sent you an e-mail a moment ago, so you can send your demo to me in the reply message. Thanks in advance for testing! :)

And thank you, Poorchop, for your valuable feedback! Reading it motivates me and makes mapping even more worthwhile. :) Watching your demo was quite thrilling, with all the ammo and health shortages and close calls.

Hmm, I thought I HAD tested the map on the middle path with no secrets found, but I guess I hadn't, because I ran out of ammo, too, now that I tested it myself. @~@

Thanks to your feedback and additional testing, I added 40 shells to the map. Now I was able to end the map with around 40 shells and 20-30 nails (if I recall correctly); no secrets, skill 2, no zombies killed. I was also intentionally somewhat wasteful with my shells to allow some misses.

Of course, if one finds the grenade launcher, ammo becomes a LOT more plentiful after that. And don't forget that this is the second map of the episode, so the player could very well be stocked up with shells, nails and even a grenade launcher from the get-go.

Based on your feedback and some additional testing I've done, I've uploaded beta version 2 of the map:

Download here

Changes from beta 1:
- Added 40 shells and 15 health.
- Made a torch illusionary, so the player won't hit their head in it when using an elevator.
- Added a killtarget trigger for some some monsterjump triggers to ease movement of a fiend.
- Prevented ogres from getting right in front of an elevator in the amphitheater. 

Sorry, I forgot to reply to your message in my previous post. Thanks for the notes! I had actually thought about the roof indentation, but wasn't sure if it was worth the trouble.

Maybe try out the beta version and then give me an update on the previous notes, whether you think they're still relevant after seeing the map live. 

But man those screenshots look great. I'll be keeping tabs on this one! 

Here's my second demo of the middle path. Sloppy playing (I actually died a few times before this due to being careless) but I was trying to run through fairly quickly. The ammo situation was good, as was the health. The center path is at a point now where it's challenging but completely fair. My only complaint was the fiend that sneaks out from behind the wall at the top of the first area you climb. I died there on an earlier attempt because I didn't have enough time to react to the wall opening behind me, and fiends hit hard.

It's hard to gauge the difficulty at this point since I mostly remembered what to expect but even then, it was still pretty tough. That's fine though - players who want an easier time can lower the difficulty. I tried a bit of the quad path but I didn't get too far with it yet. I also managed to find the grenade launcher this time and it made the map way easier.

I'll try to check out the right path as well. It's a cool concept to give the players three major variations of playing the same map.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mp43o7ykrglj6st/amphichop2.zip?dl=0 

Thanks for testing again, Poorchop! :) Some highlights from your replay:

- Knights ganging up against a vore.
- Finding the GL. Yaay, good job! :)
- Killing with a single grenade three bumbling knights flailing their swords in vain against a shambler.
- Trying to reach the silver key with a trick jump. Believe me, I did my best to make it as difficult as possible! >:D I've been able to get to the dangling beams on the other side but not quite able to find a way to climb to the key itself (if I recall correctly).
- The two final fiends accidentally charging at each other, inadvertently killing the other one in a hilarious slapstick comedy fashion! xD

Too bad you didn't quite figure out the fountain room secret. I was so rooting for you to find it! :'( There's also a secret the location of which will probably become more clear to the player who tries to clear the map following the Quad path.

About the difficulty: Yeah, after watching your first demo and feedback, the idea of suggesting playing the map in normal difficulty did cross my mind. After all, skill 2 is supposed to be HARD difficulty, and the map sure is pretty tough in that difficulty.

Sure, it may be tougher than most id maps at that difficulty, but this map is tough even with modern control schemes. So maybe I should add a disclaimer to the readme that hard really means hard for this map.

I'm wondering about the fiend. Should I have the fiend first make its presence known to the player by aggroing it with a trigger and only after a second long delay, or so, the monster closet would open. Does the ambush feel unfair otherwise? o:

I guess otherwise the middle path starts to look pretty finished. Thanks for your help! :) 

Screenshots look good, I'll get you a demo tonight! 

Overall I thought it was great, my favorite part was the gold key room with the vores at the bottom. I thought the invisibility ring path was interesting, ring respawn points were chosen well. The final elevator with the ogres raining on you was clever too! Some critique:

The area where the walls lower to reveal death knights was a bit much, I think a lesser enemy or enemy combo would be more interesting. I feel that the death knight is tedious to fight because of their high HP, putting one after another made that area a chore for me.

Entering the Shambler room was instadeath in every way I managed to approach it.

Quad path was boring for me since I didn't find any weapons.

Anyway, here are some demos: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ir5ipxHUNNTvkPGsOI1cyZM8gxOsaT9w 

This isn't the first time I've seen your demos but I must say, you're one skilled player! O_O

Demo 1:

Wow, that was nerve-racking to watch, and you got so close to the ending, too, and on a blind run to boot! You were on the brink of death there quite a number of times, and in the end being down to just one hp at that one point!

You have a super aggressive playstyle, rushing headlong into the hotzone! Like jumping down to the vores in the gk room, running to the middle of the amphitheater with the shambler, and the most ridiculous of all, juggling yourself along three shamblers to get a yellow armor! O_O

Your strategy of minimizing ammo usage by resorting to the axe from time to time was also interesting to observe. Seeing you pick up a quad damage prematurely was heartbreaking to watch. D': I was also worried seeing you pick up shells, while being almost stocked up already, but it seemed like you had the ammo situation pretty well taken care of.

An interesting point was seeing you being able to get up the elevator at the shambler room, while they were still alive; something that I had intended to make as difficult as possible, so congrats on "breaking" the map at that point. ;D I was kind of wondering, if you had forgotten about the elevator in the long corridor close to the vore. That elevator would have taken you to the second floor a lot more safely than trying to use the elevator in the shambler room.

As with the Subterrestrial Hangar, I wanted to keep the map somewhat challenging even on the quad path, which is why other weapons are hidden and nail boxes have been drastically decreased. A nailgun would be possible to find in a secret early on, though. You did find the first button to unlock the secret.

Demo 2:

Nice work there! For some reason I hadn't actually thought about the player going through the shambler room while following the ring path, so using that route certainly made the map even shorter that way. :D

Demo 3:

Hmm, you were also caught off-guard by the fiend ambush at the ogre tower climb room, were you not? Do you think I should add an invisible clip wall to prevent the fiend from immediately lunging at you after being aggroed? That would give the player a little more time to react to the fiend.

Demo 4:

Really fun to watch! I liked how you just danced and toyed with your enemies in the gold key room. I can see why you liked that room the most.

About the shambler room being instadeath: That's kinda the way it's designed to be. :D It's indended to be either carefully cleared on the quad path by taking potshots from behind the door or then by the crusher button up the elevator. And uuuuuh, after seeing your ring of shadows run, apparently by sneaking past the shamblers altogether! :D

I can see you were prepared for the fiend ambush before the GK room this time. But I'd rather have it be possible for the player to react to it on his/her blind run, so maybe I should add a temporary invisible barrier to add some time to react...

About the tedious death knights: I think this demo demonstrates quite nicely why I went with death knights, because they can still keep harassing the player with their flame attack from down below if the player decides to ignore them altogether. That way the player has two directions to be aware of: both up and down. But yeah, maybe I could drive that point across with fewer death knights too. Maybe have them appear only the first and maybe the second time...

As a bit of trivia, in earlier versions of the GK room, the player could get stuck in the ramp corners really easily. There was discussion on the issue not that long ago, actually, in the Quakespasm thread. To make the ramps smooth to traverse in that engine, I had the slopes fall one quake unit short of reaching the plateaus and having the player instead climb a step of 1 unit. I did add some illusionary brushes to give the illusion of a perfectly smooth climb, though. </the more you know>

Demo 5:

A nice run. It was cool to see the chaos as you mostly just ran past your opposition before reaching the gold key door. It was also interesting to see how you were so bent on trying to get through the shambler room, going so far as to first rush to the lever, then stock up on health and then take the elevator again, but it seems the ogres were less willing to let you keep the health you had gone to accumulate.

Thanks for the insightful and entertaining demos! :) I think I just might decrease the amount of death knights in the ogre tower climb room and allow the player a bit more time to react to the fiend. 

In case somebody would still like to test the map, here you can download the third beta version of the map. I think, unless I get more feedback, I'd consider the single player portion of the map more or less complete. While waiting for possible feedback I'll work on dm modifications.

Changes from beta 2:
- Replaced two death knights with four knights to lessen tedium.
- Increased the chances of a player to react to a fiend ambush.
- Compiled sunlight2 with 1000 sunsamples to improve sky lighting quality a bit. 

The way I see it, the quad path could be an opportunity for a more run&gun approach, where the ring path is the opposite. I think throwing more beefy enemies and weapons along with the quads could make it pretty chaotic. Maybe something borderline horde-ish as a quad path. 

sorry but I don't seem to have received the email, or I may have accidentally deleted it or something. 

Drew, did you check the spam folder in your Gmail? It could have very well ended up in there. o: Look for a message with the title "Your demo on the Amphitheater of Abaddon".

About the run n' gun approach: I think changing the quad path to include beefier monsters and weapons would require a bit too much of an overhaul at this point of development to make the change worth it for me.

Plus, unlike in the Subterretrial Hangar, the premise in this map is to keep the core level more or less the same with the same monsters on each of the paths. Adding additional/beefier monsters for the quad path would break that premise, and in the Subterrestrial hangar I hated having to resort to telefragging monsters that are not encountered in other paths (to make it possible to get 100 % kills at the end of the map).

Speaking of the Subterrestrial Hangar, one can finish the map with an SSG, NG, GL, 100 shells, 130 nails, 25 rockets (and an RA if one finds the toughish secret), and with a little bit of testing I just did, I think the arsenal allows for some nice cathartic quad path action, while still keeping the map somewhat challenging.

So perhaps I COULD add at least an SSG to the quad path without making it too easy... 

https://imgur.com/cstpDKo 

Looks super nice Nick! 

Here are some screenshots of maps I made for a SP qtest mod
with the early qtest gifs that were published.

mf_00
mf_01
mf_02
mf_03
mf_04 

This is awesome! =D

I saw the dragon/serpent flying in one of the screenshots... Your mod will feature all the unused models?

just for curiosity's sake i've found this page with three skins for some of the monsters of qtest http://androidarts.com/kawaiik/kawaiik.htm#qtest 

Yes, all models that were in the original q1test.
I added the advanced dragons from Patrick Martin,
and my own Serpent and Axe_Ogre.

I'm fiddling a bit how to make the Axe_Ogre pee, laugh and give him flees.
Still in beta, but if you're curious, see the coding thread. 

realy thanks for the skinfiles. Vormit already had a skin from the conversion of Dark Mage.
I was forgotten about the androidarts.com. 

Looks great!! looking forward to this! 

The Quaddamage and the Serpent 

Thanks to the coding of Dr.Shadowborough I overcome this great moment. Looks quiet spectacular, although the demo only works on quakespasm ad standards.

Be aware, it's alife 

Nice! Some sound design should help make it a bit more menacing. 

Ha, I'm a creep recording Q1.

Mostly I'm interested in the way it is done in the code.
Like the Headcrab in RMQ, I tried to extract it from the src,
but it is so integrated I can't lay my hand on it.