Oh I see now, I didn't realise I was supposed to sneak up and insta-kill the ogre. All good. I actually found the vault button pretty easily.

Anyway I loved the 2 levels. Nice homage. Although in some ways it kind of takes away the surprise and exploration when you already know exactly how the levels are laid out. Are they all going to be e1 remakes? I'd rather see completely unique levels rather than remakes.

I played both levels as normal, rather than stealth. The second level I think it was halfway through the level or more before might health went under 100 (I was playing on normal) so they aren't particular difficult. The kind of difficulty where you can rush through, but I don't want to do that because then I miss out on all the details. I guess it's hard to prevent though because you can't fill the place up with monsters for players who are going stealth mode. It would be too hard then.

Design is fantastic, I've got no suggestions there, it's perfect. 

@kona, if normal skill was too easy why not try the hard/nightmare skill levels? These bonus maps were just for testing the AI path finding system, did you notice any changes with the AI? I also added a few new areas and routes, did you find anything new? Did you get any of the secrets? 

@daz, question from your video part 2, How do monsters notice if you backstab another monster infront of them?

1. Radius check around backstab location (512 map units)
2. Is the 'other' monster facing the right direction (315-45 degree angle) A narrow 90 degree FOV, I might change this based on skill level.
3. Can the 'other' monster actually see the backstab location, prevents checks through world geometry but not liquids or other monsters. 

Good to know!

I played the 2nd map through today, loved it. Harder than the first but in a good way, with more complex routes and mechanics for taking out enemies. I am a fan :)

Got the knock knock secret, badass+

Mastered the crossbow much better since your comments explaining things. It's super useful to be able to move guards around with it.

I think the main issue I have with not teaching the player everything about their items is that the basic mechanics are explained so rigorously it is perhaps assumed that you are told everything. I certainly did at least, it never occurred to me that they might do more than advertised :)

I'll get the last video up in the next few days. I'm looking forward to the full release! 

@DaZ, do you think I should hint at the end of the training that there is more tricks to learn but the player has to find themselves?

I always had plans for more features but I kept resisting giving more items because I felt a Swiss Army Knife approach might be more fun. I know they do this with TF2 weapons and I really like it because I feel the extra features are like advanced tricks for seasoned players. I always thought that seasoned stealth players would appreciate the advanced stuff because they would gain more control of tricky situations ready for the 'no kill' runs.

The knock knock secret was designed because I kept seeing negke and necros checking doors all the time and thought it might be funny. 

That could help, yes. Something that would be perfect for something like this would be loading screen tips or something similar. Obviously that's not really plausible in Quake.

Hmm ok brainfart. What if in some of the secret areas of the maps there are book stands with tips written in them? You could tie it into the lore somehow and it uses an existing mechanic and keeps it relevant past the introduction map. 

@daz, yeah books would be an awesome way of doing this. It will the player more of an incentive to read books if their are game tips available instead of just back story. 

Books would indeed be an awesome way to tell tips to the player, and it could also feel pretty rewarding if these books were in secret areas like DaZ said. 

I can certainly add more book locations and it would be cool to add more to the bonus maps as extended training. I should create a couple more book skins so the book types look different. I can think of at least 3 (general, main story and training) at the moment.

By the way, I have not heard from anyone (all forums I have posted) if the books are interesting or not? I know there are some typo's in a couple of books but nobody has said anything about the content? 

If no-one complained about them then they must be good :) 

I liked them very much and some of the flavor text made me chuckle, but I have noticed some typos (or it could just be that since English isn't my native language, they are in fact not typos). 

You could have secret scrolls that hint to the player where to find another secret. In each secret have a book of knowledge how to master the game. 

Oh I always play normal. I don't think I've ever played Nightmare.

Yes I did notice some AI changes - particularly the Hell Knights are firing quicker, they were really too easy in standard Quake.

I think I found 7/8 secrets in the first level, 5 in the second (didn't really need them so didn't look too hard).

The secrets weren't too hard to find though, or at least the ones I did find. Usually i'm useless at exploration and find no secrets in most maps, unless by chance lol. 

If someone had given you the brief "Remake Quake With A Medieval Theme" then this is pretty much the perfect execution of that. It felt just like the fun of playing Quake E1 for the first time but with an exceptional modern quality.

I particularly liked:
Lighting (subtle colours especially)
Particle effects
Atmospheric sounds
Amount of secrets
Monster AI
Beefed up combat
General flawless build quality

I didn't like the new monster models so much, they were good but didn't improve on Quake as much as the rest of the map. I'd have liked to seen a few custom monsters in there (proper Quoth ones like Polyps and Vorelings, also the shield knight would have fitted in perfect).

Also I didn't like the goddamn motherfucking grate secret at the start of S1M2!!

I haven't tried stealth mode. 

@Shambler, I was wondering when you were going to have some free time to play this MOD. IMHO I think quake is a medieval game full of mystical locations and strange magical forces. The original quake tech theme always felt odd to me, it should of been doom blood/gore/organic tech, not sterile boring base crap full of endless crates.

I do believe coloured lighting can be done really nice with Quake if the colour strength is subtle. Sadly most level designers miss the finer points of lighting and see colour lighting as a new shiny toy to drench a room in. Sort of like a texture artist discovering normal maps for the first time and making everything look plastic and shiny.

What was your secret count? Was there any particle effects you did not like? Did you notice the AI doing anything weird? getting stuck? running around in circles? What skill level did you play?

What grate secret at the front of S1m2? the one at the very start? or the one inside the original secret area?

I know you are stealth game player and I really hope you record some demo's because I would especially like to see what you do on the S1m1 and S1m2 maps. If you don't record stealth run demo's, imagine my hands reaching across the internet and strangling you!?! ;) 

13/13
12/14

I liked all the particle effects. As with the coloured lighting they were subtle and spot on.

Nope the AI seemed to work fine.

Skill 2

The grate at the very start of S1M2 

Played this in the good old Quake way. I'm not that keen on stealth games.

This mod is just so 100% pro.

The brushwork is fantastic, the same goes for the lighting and the models (love the books).

I'm really looking forward to the final realese. 

Sock, i take it back dont change the vault button. just make it open for default play.
I mean why should a new player have to FIND a button for a tut? well, unless u wanted the amulet to be a secret but its a given there after. i dunno. it looks like quake but plays like theif, somewat. Either way, its gonna rock ur socks! :P 

finding the button first time around was a pain in the ass but once I found it, I was highly attuned to similar secrets in the next two maps. 

...a very good point Fern. I reckon having to work to trigger the stealth tute and then open the m1/m2 portals meant I found a lot more secrets than I normally would in those latter maps. However, I also understand why the current setup has to change.

Congratulations Sock; releasing this when you did, in the way you did, elicited a tonne of very useful feedback. 

@Hrimfaxi, thanks. What skill level did you play? did you find many secrets? Did you see the AI doing anything weird? Did you like the new layouts? Any demo's?

'That damn button!', well I have changed it for now, I might change it back for the final release but the demo is focused on the vault so it has to be easier to find.

Daz finally posted the last part of his marathon stealth derp run through the shadows. If you don't play stealth and are curious then these video's will be fun to watch over a lunch break or two!

Daz on the interweb - Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 

I do love the play through video's you have done for my MOD and the commentary is certainly the best bit for me. The video's give me a good insight into how other people play my maps and try to understand the mechanics.

E1M2 has always been my favourite map in Quake, it is probably the one map I have played the most because I love the layout. The map feels complicated but essentially it is one big loop with multiple floors. I spent such a long time creating s1m2 and it probably shows with the large amount of routes I have added.

The main feature of the map is the introduction of traps (spikes and lightning) but I think the presentation could be better. I liked how Kell had off switches for his traps and I implemented the same mechanic. I have been playing s1m2 a lot recently for the no kill run and I have changed the traps to have a toggle state via the switch so you can turn the traps on if the monster is in the way. It is really satisfying to kill enemies with traps, especially ones under player control.

I originally had the electric beam traps as one shot kill to enemies but I was told it made it too easy, so I toned the damage down. Based on how much time you spent on them I think it is better to bump the damage up (from 3 to 18), but I don't want an instant kill.

Probably what is confusing for players is that on normal skill level the electric traps are present but there is no wizard to kill with them. On hard skill level this is not the case but it seems most people play on normal (from what demo's I have seen) skill level.

I like your idea about the books, the next version of the MOD will have stealth books with hints and I will do the same system as the story books. (automatically pick the next tip regardless of how they are found) I have also added 8 different skins so the books are coloured coded for function. (green/brown - general, blue - story, red - stealth) Plus any books that have been read will stay open making it easier for players to see what they have looked at or not.

I also like the idea of the quad room having a stealth reward so I have added another fully stocked stealth cupboard (at the back of the demon room) as a reward for stealth at the end of the sequence.

I noticed a couple of AI doing some weird stuff but that is probably just me because most people accept the odd mistake or two. I like to make secrets 'show and tell' where I hint at something being around but you need to find out how close by. I think this allows more players to find secrets and enjoy the exploration angle of playing quake more. There is certainly some hard secrets to find in s1m2 but I don't like how some maps just make every secret crazy hard to find.

The idea of the MOD was to tell the story of Lord Aramis and that is done with the main maps "The Keep of Aramis" and "The Black Forge". The bonus maps s1m1/s1m2 were designed for testing of the AI, I don't have any plans to carry on creating the rest of episode one. 

I was wondering about the lightning emitters! At first I thought it was some kind of long-term elaborate secret where you had to turn them on in sequence. Then finally I encountered a scrag and realized it was to kill fliers. :P 

It usually took at least 3 goes with the lightning to kill a scrag for me, since they path_ed while I was trying to kill them.

Don't see the problem with instant kill to be honest - instant reward. As in, if the player gets it right then reward them.

Of course, if they miss then the scrag should be alerted to the danger, treating the lightning trap as a player attack that missed - might ruin the no-kill runs though. 

I found some more video gameplay of In the Shadows. Skacky has uploaded a complete playthrough of all maps (stealth mode) on his youtube channel, the last video is a lot of fun played on hard skill. :)

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4