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Ah
#14890 posted by metlslime on 2015/03/19 20:21:15
okay, i was a bit confused, let me clarify
1. a standard 12-sided cylinder would have straight sides of 4:0 and angled sides of 4:2, so you don't need any scaling for it to look good.
2. the standard 24-sided cylinder has sides of 4:0, 4:1, 4:2, 3:3. I generally only bother adjusting scale with the 3:3 one and i would use 0.75 scale.
In both the above cases, the goal is not mathematical correctness but a) avoiding obvious stretching and b) getting "panel" type textures to perfectly fit the face. Because of the orthographic projection, the 4:0, 4:1, and 4:2 sides all get the same projected width.
For 45-degree angled faces not part of a cylinder (and with flat "material" textures), 0.71 or 0.70 is what i generally use.
Fifth
#14891 posted by SleepwalkR on 2015/03/19 23:10:09
Wrap texture and auto fit are on the todo list.
Are you trying to turn me on?
Nice!
#14893 posted by killpixel on 2015/03/20 02:50:18
@preach - that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
Best Newbie Mapeditor?
#14894 posted by nullC on 2015/03/22 15:30:01
I've tried this before a hundred times and never got anywhere.
Time to try again!
What's the most generally user-friendly editor for Q1SP maps? I need something any lobotomized sack of protoplasm could pick up and use to spit out a hideous piece of barely playable garbage.
A good Q1 mapping primer would also not go amiss here, if anyone has a link to one -- not a tutorial, just a breakdown of stuff you're going to need to get really familiar with and various shortcuts.
I'd Say Trenchbroom Is The Best IMO.
I made a tutorial video which starts from literally the beginning (downloading the files) all the way up to making your first box map.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BisleGBgQ4w
It's unlisted because it's not really well done. I intend on re-formatting and making a decent video at some point.
More Tuts/primers
I haven't watched it yet, but thanks for making that tutorial, Fifth!
I'm a complete newbie mapper, and decided to go the TrenchBroom route. Can't say how it compares to other editors, as it's the only one I have ever tried, but it is reasonably user friendly (I cannot wait for TB2 and 2D views, though, as I find the perma-3D thing a little frustrating at times).
Need to plug Scampie's TB tut here too: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping.
Also look at this set of links: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Mapping_tutorials.
This list of Quake entities http://web.archive.org/web/20090506031258/http://hosted.planetquake.gamespy.com/worldcraft/index2.shtm is particularly useful. It is not 100% complete, but incredibly helpful nonetheless.
Daz's TB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr9FR1W1JFE also gives one a very good sense of what's where.
If you're on Linux, this guide http://andyp123.blogspot.de/2013/03/running-trenchbroom-quake-editor-on.html is extremely helpful in installing TB.
I Appreciate The Tutorials...
#14897 posted by nullC on 2015/03/22 22:36:49
and Trenchbroom. I actually managed to make a box map, which i was previously unable to do! (Yes, seriously.)
However, Trenchbroom seems limited to box maps (maps with right corners, at least) with an initial glance and I want to use my architectural studies to the fullest.
The tutorial links are nice, but I learn very poorly from tutorials (more specifically, I learn to make EXACTLY what they teach very well, which is great for general purpose elements but bad for complex stuff). The stuff on QuakeWiki could be useful, but I can't tell as it won't load at all!
What I really need is a bunch of "tips-n-tricks" along with basic function reminders. Things like the tutorial on pipes shortly above my post are a great example of stuff I can actually learn well from, even though it doesn't look like I could apply it easily to Trenchbroom. Combined with a reference guide (not docs so much as a cheatsheet) for the editor I could get on my feet very quickly.
#14898 posted by necros on 2015/03/22 22:40:26
However, Trenchbroom seems limited to box maps (maps with right corners, at least) with an initial glance and I want to use my architectural studies to the fullest.
Press v.
#14899 posted by Kinn on 2015/03/22 22:45:54
However, Trenchbroom seems limited to box maps (maps with right corners, at least) with an initial glance and I want to use my architectural studies to the fullest.
Much to learn, young Padawan...much to learn...
Brilliant!
#14900 posted by nullC on 2015/03/22 22:56:33
Much better. This is why that cheatsheet would come in handy!
Trenchbroom Is Well Documented -
http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/
All you need is pretty much there. It's fairly simple and straightforward, gives you all the shortcuts you need.
In terms of geometry creation, it's simple to use and understand but you can create complex stuff quite quickly. It's also very good for making organic geometry like rockwork and natural landscapes.
NullC
#14902 posted by SleepwalkR on 2015/03/22 23:24:01
Did you miss the documentation that TB comes with?
It's also available from here: http://kristianduske.com/trenchbroom/docs/
My Bad...
#14903 posted by nullC on 2015/03/23 01:53:15
I normally don't check docs (especially "good" ones!) because they're generally full of overly technical info useless to a novice. Almost no consideration given to using them as a reference as you work.
Trenchbroom is a breath of fresh air all around!
I'm building a nice little start-room for my first map right now. Thanks for the help guys!
Couple remaining questions.
How complex can the lighting get? For example, if I wanted the lightmap to be casting shadows of bars or (using those pyramidal post lights from the ID base maps) just be a thin slot pouring out horizontally, could I do that? What about spotlights? How would I go about doing these?
Is there any way to visualize the lighting other than compiling the map and running it?
Thanks again by the way, guys!
Lighting
#14904 posted by necros on 2015/03/23 02:10:15
unfortunately, there isn't much in the way of visualizing lights. as a beginner, you will just have to compile and check until you start to get a feel for the numbers.
you can check this out for a little more explanation of the settings you can give to lights: http://shoresofnis.com/post.php?postID=2
i would recommend you have little test rooms where you copy and paste the bits of the map you want to test out lighting on. once you have a good result, copy and paste that light entity. not only is it easier, but you'll get a more consistent look.
this might help visualize spotlights a bit: http://shoresofnis.com/img/fakeshadows/torchShadows3.jpg
if you have a really hard time, you can use target->targetname from lights to info_nulls. that way you always know where the spot is pointing.
the guide touches on spot lights a bit.
Right Angles?
#14905 posted by ijed on 2015/03/23 03:06:44
It can do more :)
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/rift0wip.PNG
But, I'd recommend not trying doing such freeform stuff just yet - you'll (probably) get frustrated quickly since there are a lot of things you need to know about how BSP and the compilers work before you start pushing the limits.
I've got some general hints, since I can't be bothered just now referencing stuff (and what everyone's provided above is more than enough for you to get started with).
1. Set yourself deadlines - the hardest part of mapping is finishing
2. It doesn't have to be perfect; concentrate on what you know is weak, not everything
3. Learn to be critical, identify where and why something is wrong
4. You don't have to release your first map
5. Personally, I don't follow any of these, and you'll develop your own method as you learn :D
One I do follow though:
6. The journey is more important than the destination
Good luck!
Thanks To Everyone
#14906 posted by nullC on 2015/03/23 03:19:05
And especially thanks to ijed: his Warpspasm pack (played for the third time...) inspired me to try this again. Having him post a response to me is kind of like one of those teenage fangirl squee moments, except less squee and more arterial blood spurts, and less teenage fangirl and more hideous unhinged star-abortion.
Ijed
Nice screenshot! It looks so ... surprisingly un-Quake-like and pretty. Makes me want to go and take a walk there (I mean a real walk; not a run through a map shooting monsters).
Best Practices?
#14908 posted by nullC on 2015/03/23 12:21:57
Ok, I'm getting a bit more intricate with my work. Clipping brushes was initially really hard to wrap my head around until a friend described it as cutting decorative pastries, and then it was suddenly perfectly easy to understand.
And now lighting is getting past the point of simple functionality, so I'm wanting to know about best practices.
1: Target engine/engine parameters? Is it "okay" of me to target Darkplaces with RT World Shadow enabled? I can't keep the spotlights from lighting stuff they shouldn't be otherwise, it seems. If such a tight requirement would be frowned upon, is there a light util that does semi-proper shadowing?
2: Colored lights require .lit files. I futzed with the engine a bit, and if .lits aren't loaded, those lights don't work at all! That's a catastrophe. Is it okay to require .lit capability in whatever engine the user decides to run it in for full playability? If not, is there a way to quickly and easily strip all the _color keys from a .map so I can just compile a .lit-ful and a .lit-less set?
I want the maximum number of people to be able to "enjoy" my maps, but I also don't want to have to compromise atmosphere, especially in a game that is so very atmospheric. I'm trying to figure out what the line is there.
#14909 posted by Kinn on 2015/03/23 12:56:31
1) Making a first-time map for Darkplaces only is a guarantee that almost no-one will play it. What are you trying to do exactly with the spotlights? If you describe the problem then I'm sure we can help.
2) What exactly do you mean by "I futzed with the engine a bit"? I'm not sure what you are trying to do there - if the engine supports lit, the lights will be coloured, if not, they will be uncoloured, but should all appear correctly otherwise.
#14910 posted by Lunaran on 2015/03/23 13:47:48
If .lits aren't loaded you get greyscale lighting. Anything else is a bug.
Alright Then
#14911 posted by nullC on 2015/03/23 19:15:45
Darkplaces is broken, then. Blah. Disabling RT World turns off all colored lights entirely. I figured this was equivalent to disabling .lit support, given otherwise it changed very little other than general shading. My bad. Guess I'll be moving to another engine... Any suggestions? (I only liked DarkPlaces for the shadowing.)
I'm trying to get overlapping areas of light and shadow on the side of a room. I have a set of very narrow angle spotlights currently, because of attempts to use progressively narrower angles to fix the spotlights lighting all of the walls and the floor with no darker spots at all. No dice.
#14912 posted by Joel B on 2015/03/23 20:55:08
If you want to try another engine, QuakeSpasm is a good choice. Crossplatform, some good usability and performance improvements, relatively GLQuake-faithful but also with rendering bugfixes. Lots of mappers and map-players use it.
Quakespasm
Quakespasm seems to be the de facto standard around here (so if your map works properly in just one engine, Quakespasm is probably the best choice, as you'll have the largest potential audience).
I have no knowledge of the technical side of things, though. Maybe there's simply a setting in DarkPlaces that needs to fiddled with.
#14914 posted by JneeraZ on 2015/03/23 20:58:16
OK, here's my unsolicited 2 cents ...
You're going to have to let go. :) Quake is over 20 years old so you're not going to realize any great lighting schemes or whatever you have planned. Quake can look great, don't get me wrong. But on the whole, you have to go for broad strokes rather than specific lighting set ups.
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