your interpretation is great, and I agree that it describes modern life and the disconnection/comfort/hidden evil that most people (including me) go through/live in. However I don't think the Wachowski brothers are that smart. What you're discussing is "smart anti-authoritarianism" as opposed to "stupid, whiny leftism," and if you want an illustration of which side of that line those Wa-chowski boys are on just watch "V for Vendetta."

The 13th Floor, Existenz, and Dark City all did similar ideas earlier and arguably better. Not to mention all the scifi accessible to those able to read for 30 years prior to any of it being proposed to some asshole with his hands on the hollywood purse straps.

Again, I prefer Matrix ONE, to the average action movie. But I've never mistaken it for good scifi. 

you could be right, and of course works of art don't really have to be limited to artist's intent when interpreting them.

Plus, you are correct in that their ham-fisted treatment of V for Vendetta made it clear about how sophisticated they are as directors. It kind of seems like the matrix was an accident they couldn't repeat. 

but not a great film. I dont agree with bambuz's post above at all about stupid action sequences.

The scene he talks about in particular is one of my favorite staged and choreographed action scenes, is it unrealstic and unbelievable, yes. But its also extremely well done for cinematic effect.

By that time in the movie you shold know what type of film it is, and if you're still expecting Solaris, you are obviously going to be disappointed.
V

V for Vendetta is another story, utter rubbish from start to end. 

The next time you are dragged to see entertainment on the big screen, turn off your mind, relax and float down stream. It is not killing you to disengage the cerebellum every now and then, you are just letting the thing recharge. 

That is a good way of looking at it, Metl, but I prefer the version (whoever mentioned it) where humans are used for their processing power.

Like vampiric labotomy.

I prefer this grim idea because it interprets the same way but the cause and effect are the same - the general mass are blinkered so that the society can function. Not so that some mysterious resource can be gleaned from their imprisionment. I spose it's a more direct fairy tale type idea - the black and white certainties.

In the fifities everything was explained by nuclear, just recently it's been genetic engineering. Machines = electricity is pretty lazy.

The matrix was a pretty out there concept, for box office films, and they could have explored it better. 

In the fifities everything was explained by nuclear, just recently it's been genetic engineering.

So true. Seems like every vampire or zombie or werewolf movie nowadays explains everything as being caused by a virus or genetic mutation. 

"The next time you are dragged to see entertainment on the big screen, turn off your mind, relax and float down stream. It is not killing you to disengage the cerebellum every now and then, you are just letting the thing recharge."

OK, 2 things:

1) Dragged? Get over yourselves.

2) I agree. Movies are mainly about FUN and FANTASY. Just let yourself go and get into it. You'll have a much happier life if you stop expecting every single thing you do to nourish you on a spiritual and intellectual level. Some things are simply meant to be fun. 

I agree. Movies are mainly about FUN and FANTASY. Just let yourself go and get into it. You'll have a much happier life if you stop expecting every single thing you do to nourish you on a spiritual and intellectual level. Some things are simply meant to be fun.

i can see both sides of the argument here. whilst i wholly agree with the above, the common view seems to be that 2 & 3 were trying to 'to nourish you on a spiritual and intellectual level', which is what has gotten most people's backs up. i can't say as it bothered me that much but i can see why it would others.

v for vendetta is one of my favourite films though :( 

"Movies are mainly about FUN and FANTASY."

Disagree. Some are, plenty out there that's more than that. I know a lot of people can only go with the fun mode or the serious mode, but I like to watch both (alhough I can say that i get a lot more out of the serious stuff and the bar for fun stuff is higher for me). 

1) Dragged? Get over yourselves.

I was just being simpatico to Bambuz' POV. 

No hace mal a los de mas. 

Everybody read some Stanislaw Lem and get your brain turned ON and have fun at the same time.
I honestly recommend it to Metl especially. 

which scifi movies do you think have been been nourishing the spirit and intellect?
If a movie has 2 out of 3 components (the atmosphere/quality and the plot/setting components, lifted from books) I see it as a great spiritual and intellectual nourishing opportunity. But then they add crap and the total is wasted, like Matrix was.

It's like when somebody was making pancakes. He makes a proper dough from recipe and fries em (whatever word it is) like he has seen his mother do, and then instead of jam decides to get creative instead and adds a pile of shit on top. Then he puts it on the platter, gives to you and says "enjoy!".

Now, maybe some people can say it was the function of the whole pancake exercise to be shit anyway, I say it could have been a great pancake experience marred by shit. 

Calm down.

There's a big difference between mainstream media, be it films, books, television (to a degree) or music.

Cinema is always marketed to the masses, expecting it to be intellectual is like complaining because your bacon sandwich didn't arrive with caviar sprinkled on top.

The author you linked looks like he's written some good stuff - (I can't buy it out here (no Amazon)) but it's not mainstream media and to compare the two is a bit short sighted. Maybe.

Twelve fat cunts sat in a boardroom, all of which have a secure salary and pension, deciding what is the next year's entertainment. Be it qausi-intellectual or pure pap, the decision rests with the same groups.

I don't watch films any more unless I'm under the influence, so could be my opinion is null and void. 

does the pile of shit has to include the pancakes if 99% of the population can't tell them pancakes being there in the first place anyway. Having never even tasted them.

Oh how awfully low is the bar set.

At the same time, the visual effects are extremely refined and millions after millions are spent to do them.

It's the same with the manned space program. Billions are spent, elaborate techniques are developed in decades of hard serious work, thousands of careers are devoted and many people burned out. And the guys plant a flag on the moon and leave. There was never any thought behind any of it.

All that effort wasted. Such a shame. 

If The Matrix hadn't had the blue and the red pill, if there had not been the multiple worlds, if Neo abruptly would not have woken up from the slime in one of the great scenes of scifi cinema, and if there would not have been many of those great things about the movie that had been borrowed from elsewhere, I wouldn't complain. It would have been generic crap throughout.

What I'm just saying is that it could have been so much better so much easily but for some reason held back so much. I don't understand why, and it makes me angry too.

At the same time it of course poisoned the well for all future movies handling the themes, as they will be always compared to Matrix (even though Matrix took things from books).

Of course, all my posts have been exaggerating just to make the point more clear to everyone. 

"What I'm just saying is that it could have been so much better so much easily but for some reason held back so much. I don't understand why, and it makes me angry too. "

It makes me angry too. I can't believe it was so popular and made so much money and yet was a horrible shit pancake. Imagine what could have been if they had made a GOOD movie. Ye gods!! The universe may have ripped itself in two. 

At the same time it of course poisoned the well for all future movies . . .

And it wasn't before?

Good films are few and far between. 

good mainstream new releases are few and far between. But there's heaps of good stuff out every year, you just have to look for it since it's not really advertised.

And if you're willing to go back and see older stuff, the list grows exponentially. 

I'm not sure how the space program is an analogy, but it is simultaneously depressing and hilarious how much effort goes into making such complex, elaborate and downright amazing expressions... of base stupidity.

You'd think that somewhere in the technical /artistic process of creating all this amazing CGI, which undoubtedly requires... THINKING... someone might wonder, "But why is the script retarded? Why is the idea retarded? Why is the intellectual level of the whole thing so retarded?"

Western culture post-1950 has some real problems. There's a huge gap between stupid shallow bullshit for goddamn idiots, and pretentious solipsistic deliberately boring shite. In my view there needs to be a sane middle ground, where the content can appeal to a fairly wide segment of the population, but there is actually some depth/intellectual content to the material. Lovecraft is a good example. 

that middle ground would be 70's cinema :) 

Why is the intellectual level of the whole thing so retarded?

Because the guy with the money likes it / doesn't give a shit knowing it'll sell. 

Willem:
I find your lack of passion regarding art admirable.

Tronyn, Nitin:
Yes!
Serpico for one. 

Not all 70's, but;

Taxi Driver

Wicker Man

Scanners (the second two following the aforementioend downcline)

Robocop (as above)

Terminator

The Thing 

And Total Recall.

I recently read Ubik, which was good as well.