I Made Some Grey/orange Textures For Mapping
Using Quakespasm Is Best
because most people will be using a similar engine (like fitzquake, directq or rmq). This is at least true for the singleplayer side of things.
If I am not mistaken though a lot of the multiplayer engines are based on darkplaces (like Nquake).
Allcaps
#13141 posted by gb on 2013/08/26 10:50:29
https://anonfiles.com/file/30705c2042e16922502fd84e7237e8f0
This is the greybox wad I use in my current DM map. I made the textures in Wally. Have fun.
To Map Hackers
#13142 posted by gb on 2013/08/26 10:51:58
negke & co., how do I make an item float in midair in vanilla quake? There must be some way to circumvent the droptofloor part.
Yep
you rest the item on an object that gets removed when the map starts...
#13144 posted by gb on 2013/08/26 13:35:43
Indeed, this works even in deathmatch. Thanks.
Make Sure To Remove It A Frame Or So After The Map Starts
#13145 posted by - on 2013/08/26 16:21:17
weapons don't drop to floor until a frame or so passes.
#13146 posted by necros on 2013/08/26 19:01:43
correct me if i'm wrong but I think it actually needs to be after 1 second, because the game starts at 1 second.
so, a nextthink of 0.5 would actually run at 1 second and would be before droptofloors are called.
to be safe, it should be at least > 1.
My Method
#13147 posted by ijed on 2013/08/26 19:06:00
Was to have the player touch a trigger once that killtargeted all the func_walls I had set up for the feature.
Worked on all engines as I recall.
Gb
#13148 posted by negke on 2013/08/26 19:25:29
Simplest setup is a func_wall that removes itself (no need for triggers). Add the following fields:
"think" "SUB_Remove"
"nextthink" "0.2"
necros: I've heard that one before, but it's either incorrect or irrelevant in this context. Setting nextthink to 0.X in a map works fine. If anything, if the game starts at 1 second, then all of such values will be automatically executed at 1.X.
Engines
#13149 posted by negke on 2013/08/26 20:09:15
To clarify a few wrong statements above: there are so-called NetQuake type engines - the ones that Quake SP runs on as well - and there are QuakeWorld engines which, among other things, have client-side prediction and modified physics, and are originally not meant to be used for SP. Some people use NQ engines for multiplayer games, some prefer QW. Naturally, certain NetQuake ports geared more toward singleplayer, while others are made with multiplayer in mind.
All engine ports are based on the original WinQuake, GLQuake, or QW sources released by id. Darkplaces, on the other hand, was largely rewritten from scratch as far as I know, and as such handles several things different than regular engines. It supports both NQ and QW servers, but it's not the base for any other ports.
#13150 posted by gb on 2013/08/26 20:31:05
The nextthink/SUB_Remove on a func_wall makes sense.
I was thinking there is probably a way to hack the floating object itself to not go to droptofloor() but I was too lazy to think that up myself. And whatever works, right.
I used triggers on all the start spots in this version, might just go and do the SUB_Remove thing in the next one.
I remember we had a spawnflag for this in RMQ and also spawn/deathtargets on IPS. But if one targets vanilla deathmatch, custom progs is a no go.
Yeah
#13151 posted by ijed on 2013/08/26 22:15:19
I just stuck in a simple if that skipped the droptofloor() call for that one.
Well That Just Proves What I Know
precisely dick!
Just stick with QS for your map...
#13153 posted by gb on 2013/08/27 11:31:26
It's a DM map, no one uses QS there :) They use stuff like glpro, qrack, and ezquake.
I have a hard time getting my .lit file to stick already. Seems half of them have no coloured lighting.
Layout Tools?
#13154 posted by ALLCAPS on 2013/08/27 16:07:35
Are there any good tools to be aware of outside of the usual workflow? Aside from the editor and texture utilities, what else do you leverage while you're making a map?
In particular I'm trying to think of a good way to plan maps. I was using graphing paper, but has anyone used something like google sketchup/layout, or another program? A simple way to layout a design from multiple angles would be awesome.
I was just using paper, but it's hard to keep track of the map from multiple angles, and to keep track of what line is what.
#13155 posted by Spiney on 2013/08/27 16:30:34
Thing with planning maps... paper is fastest but lacks 3D. And if you do it in 3D you might as well do it inside the editor?
I like planning on paper, if you practice sketching straight in linear or orthogonal perspective and just do lots of little sketches it's pretty okay, you just have take peace with the fact you can't draw from all angles.
Workflow
#13156 posted by Spiney on 2013/08/27 16:32:05
dividing your time between layout and looks (dev texture etc) can be a huge save of effort.
Prototyping
#13157 posted by ALLCAPS on 2013/08/27 16:48:01
Trenchbroom makes it very easy to bang out huge swaths of geometry with little pain, but I find that the thing I have trouble with is keeping layers matched between floor levels. Such as the first greybox rough revision I made for my remake of DM-Stalwart, there are four or so different floor heights, and they all connect via ramps and stairs, but a couple of my levels ended up uneven with each other, which didn't really matter in the rough layout, but for when I do the real-deal I need to make sure that should be square with each other are.
Is there a good technique to prevent snafus like this? Such as making floor platforms first, or placeholders? I seem to remember at one point in 2D view editors I'd setup all the floors first from the top perspective, then use a side perspective to move the layers to the heights I wanted, and work from there.
#13158 posted by necros on 2013/08/27 17:04:54
there are four or so different floor heights, and they all connect via ramps and stairs
One of the strengths of Trenchbroom, I find.
Resolving height differences can be a bit of a pain, but the fact that there is height differences is a good thing for your map and is worth the trouble.
Yeah
#13159 posted by ijed on 2013/08/27 17:55:32
Doing an accurate projection of a plan isn't as good as it might seem. As Necros says, the map will be better for the tweaks and playtesting you have to do.
When I draw a level plan I just scribble down the loops and points of interest in a flow chart style diagram of how it will play.
Orthogonal projection of architectural style plans is a pain in the arse and tends to break as soon as you put players (or even AI) in it.
A good rule of thumb; the less flat the better. Even when it means rethinking your ideas for the level.
I just hit a problem with this last night where the SP map layout I'm making isn't working with the monster I wanted to use in that section. So in order to maintain the uneven floor I'm rethinking the encounters there.
I could just fudge it, or chuck in a random horde, but solving the problem well is part of the fun.
For The Best
#13160 posted by ALLCAPS on 2013/08/27 18:11:42
It may be for the best, because the player movement and mobility is different in Quake than it is in UT99, so a little tweaking will be needed regardless. Though even with just the rough greyboxes the map works well for sure. I drafted my brother into testing it with me and we had a blast with the gameplay.
Still deciding what theme I want to use. The easy answer would be metal, since the original Stalwart is a garage, but I have a few ideas for making it medieval themed. Trying to be creative in replacing setpieces from the original with Quake-esque replacements, instead of just trying to recreate them.
#13161 posted by necros on 2013/08/27 18:12:55
rethinking... redoing.
I have a section I've redone 4 times now. Throwing stuff away does waste time, but often you get something even better out of it. And if not, you can just reload a backup.
#13162 posted by gb on 2013/08/27 20:07:48
What I use when making a level... I find with singleplayer levels I just spend a disproportionate amount of time planning before actually touching an editor. Recently I also do perspective sketches of entire areas. And I try to come up with unique little setpieces.
The overall gameplay of a level usually comes pretty fast, since I like to keep that simple - there might be a destroy objective or a collect keys objective, but also lots of exploring where I don't really plan much. So my high level gameplay is usually very simple, and then I try to allow for emergent gameplay while exploring. Periodically spawning monsters that patrol etc.
Then again, parts of levels also come together while just putting blocks together in Radiant. It's really a mixture of several approaches, and then I just reiterate.
I tend to use a greyboxing approach these days, too, and start with simple blocks and placeholders. So for the multiple floors problem, yeah I would use placeholders in various places or just build it from memory (and accept the little differences that come with that).
I used to make a lot of drawing plans for maps, but these days I flesh out a few rooms, make a bunch of geometry pieces for templates and I spend a lot of time having "inspiration sleeps"... that is I intentionally have naps and dream about mapping. It's weird but sometimes I will nap for 5-10 minutes and spend a couple of hours mapping then if I run into a wall I have another nap.
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