:teaching101: 

Darplaces isn't fitzquake enough for me, because it's just too unreliable. The qexpo version did this to me:

http://www.btinternet.com/~chapterhonour/bug.zip

(to replicate, just stand still while in contact with the enforcer, and the projectiles all get stuck until you move. It can also be done by other monsters if they infight with an enforcer at point blank)

Now don't get me wrong, I love all the extensions that DP has. If I'm making a fun mod for myself it's the first choice as it frees up most of the restrictions of moding for quake. But time and again the added features create problems for playing through the original quake.

Fitzquake on the other hand has never messed with the original game dynamics, and as long as it doesn't, it'll be my engine of choice for playing maps for the original quake. It's got the same kind of rendering enhancements DP has(which made hacking motion interpolation into it a real pain....) but none of the extra baggage. And that's why we need it. 

DP just seems like a futile exercise in excess. It follows the rather amateurish philosophy of "chuck as many features in as possible and it's got to be good!" that most newbie designers seem to follow. Now I know DP is no newbie project, but the final result just comes across that way to me. 

from what i know, darkplaces is pretty well-designed. The problem comes when all these features are enabled by default, becuase many of them are ugly unless the game arwork is designed to support them. In a stock id map or most custom maps, the arwork is NOT. there is no bumpmap, and the auto-generated one sucks. There is no appropriate detail map, so the default detail map makes every texture look like it was painted on sandstone. And so on.

Yes, this is partly a problem of lack of documentation -- if users could easily configure their DP into "normal quake" mode, then they could enjoy quake with DP's rendering benefits, like real-time visibility culling, faster opengl pipeline, etc.

But the extra problem is the misconception that all users want the same thing, or that all engines should provide it.

DP is a great modding engine. Fitzquake is not -- it's main goal is to let players enjoy regular quake and regular quake maps as much as possible. Joequake, proquake, fuhquake, and aquirre's engine are all in similar situations -- they each satisfy certain kinds of user. This is why each community has a different favorite engine, becuase each community has different needs. 

is "Fritzquake" the german version of Fitzquake?

sorry, couldnt resist. 

Jewish version? 

for me the ideal choice of engine is fitzquake and aquire's engine (maybe it's time to call it bengtquake?) because they both look classic but work better. Everything's simple.

btw uwf lol 

...darkplaces never defaulted to having bumpmapping on for me in any version, i have to turn on bumpmapping, bloom, real time lights, and so on... granted it doesnt look exactly like Quake, but it still feels Quake to me and i enjoy it. it runs fine and runs only slightly slower than FitzQuake (which i only use when specified to use basically because i really do enjoy frame interpolation) while still having the potential of looking awesome (rtlights on dlights makes those multi-ogre battles quite dramatic).

i dunno, ive never had any confusion in using DP aside from when i tried to edit the real time lights in game (as in selecting an entity, and adjusting various fields of it within the console). its straightforward, supports so much, looks good to me, and is the third fastest engine ive tried. that and i can use it for multiplayer as well because it plays the same on nq and qw servers which i like - so to me the difference doesnt exist, its all just servers. i like that level of unity. 

If all you miss in fitzquake is model interpolation then you can try my unofficial attempt to hack it in : - )
http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/~ajd70/fitzhack.zip
Just don't use r_shadows 1, the wonder of an unofficial release. 

does it break anything else ? 

Not to my knowledge, I've been using it regularly since I wrote it and not encountered anything else. I only changed one other bit of code, and that was just adding the monsterclip thing(which isn't required now thanks to the trick Than found which works the same in all engines). So it should be fine. Maybe I should go back and fix the shadows code, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard... 

you sir, rock! 

For anyone who has trouble compiling for example TyrQuake in Linux for this error:
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL

First try running ldconfig as root.
If that didn't help check what is your "real" libGL.so.something in /usr/lib
ls -l | grep libGL.so

For me this looks like this:
18 2007-09-19 10:17 libGL.so.1 -> libGL.so.100.14.11
608400 2007-08-23 11:43 libGL.so.100.14.11
386460 2007-08-28 12:41 libGL.so.1.2

The libGL.so.100.14.11 is my "real" one. The -> implies a symlink from libGL.so.1 to it. What is missing though is a LibGL.so which is needed for compiling. Create a new symlink that points LibGL.so -> libGL.so.100.14.11:
ln libGL.so.100.14.11 libGL.so

Now make again. :) 

Please help me finding what should be listed about them:
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1053 

http://www.disenchant.net/engine.html 

Join the interesting discussion A new standardised protocol?
http://forums.inside3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1095 

Tyrquake, fuck that, where's a new Tyrmap??!? 

plz 

If anything comes of his idea.

The 2 protocols that would be the best are:

1. DarkPlaces protocol 7, so coop play without lag is possible without an expensive dedicated server. (yeah, I know about ZQuake and FTEQW).

2. aguirRe's default protocol with the near infinite limits support. 

aguirRe's with qrack and joequake eyescandy

:p

and same menus to demos and stuff...

that whould take me out of joequake i think... 

I just stumbled onto a bunch of Linux engines and their sources:
http://icculus.org/~ravage/quake/ 

I always disable all graphic effects. But i can't turn off the green lightning of the scrags. XD
Not too fond of qrack, it think it's not that stable, but the packet overflow seems to be fixed. 

Is the screenshot function broken in tyr-quake 0.60 (sw, on Linux)? The PCX files I get from it look like this in GIMP:
http://s1.image.gd/o/4e/4ec35adfeae686b143bbf3d9facd3f0ce480ceef.png 

I have the same problem, I think it is the bit depth of the X server though (or of the framebuffer, or both). Didn't get it to work yet. Most sw renderers do that.

Tyrann seems to be MIA, so maybe we should ask sezero to fix that. I also have a heap of patches for tyrquake that I don't have anyone to contact about :-/ and a manpage O_o

Even for Joequake I have to start the X server in 8 bit mode to get proper screenies O_o

FTE does working screenies in software, though. Sometimes >:-) 

stable and mature software alright