that applies to most maps though. 

...this level of discussion is very heartening, thank you one and all. As speeds pointed out, the strength and diversity of reaction means I may well have produced a piece of art. Very satisfying...

I'm glad Shambler cottoned to my raison detre, after I decided to make it more than a lighting exercise (in Fitz specifically), this level was constructed with one eye firmly on the 'gameplay' thread. I initially tried for that 'more than adequate ammo / low health / oodles of armour / low monster count' idea, and some of this stayed through development. I wanted the thing to be 'nail heavy' but in such a compact level I thought introducing the SNG would be overkill. Mistake number one :) The SNG should replace the SSG in the Exit area in ALL skill levels. This I now feel would've made the rolling spawn fest after GK pick-up more enjoyable in general and even more survivable (first time round) on skill 2.

The shambler combat is broken on nightmare (I - not my testers - keep forgetting about that damn skill level), which means the combat shouldn't be there at all...and I think I'll add that one to my list of "gameplay axioms".

I wanted this one to be different, and in doing so made a couple of mistakes. I learn... maybe we all did/do.

Plenty to celebrate though, thanks again! 

ok, this seem to be a nice level but very hard and unbalanced... here's my first run demo where i tried to survive using godmode at health 14, but still failed http://vondur.net/files/vdisp6.7z

also, the game's fps dropped down to unplayable levels (<1fps) in certain areas and when certain monsters where attacking me, making it unplayable. so i was unable to finish it... 

This map really isn't that hard even on nightmare when you play cautiously (and know the shambler dance) but like others have said, not very classic-quakey. Awesome textures and soundscape even though they were all ripped from Doom 3 :) . Would definitely play more of this..

Vondur - you need "-heapsize 48000" on the command line to fix the unplayable framerate after those first plasma-grunts. 

Again, this one is perfect, the only problem is that it makes me want more. It is more Doom3 than Doom3 itself ever was. Is it the first D3 textured level for Quake1? Is the texture pack available for other mappers? How about to map something like this RickyT23, you have similar style. Can we hope to see more maps made in this style?

I don�t know how can somebody complain about textures (fit better than original IDbase ones IMHO) or difficulty (skill 0 is just fine+placing enemies is about 1% of mappers work only, it is all about brushwork and texturing and lighting, which all are perfect in Ruined Nation).

Absolutely kewl level. Doom3 meets Half-Life1 here. I love all the details (lifting jetplane behind glass walls etc. etc.). Anybody found the SSG+slime secret yet?

There are no more sound related slowdowns after starting the game this way:

fitzquake080 -hipnotic -game quoth -heapsize 48000 +sv_aim 1 +skill 0 +sv_aim 1 +gl_texturemode gl_nearest -gl_texsort 0 -gl_detail 1 +gl_flashblend 1 +map dis_sp6 

I do love the brushwork and textures! But try it on nightmare, and you'll see the problem!

Honestly though the textures dont work well in the quake 8-bit pallette, I think some of them work better than others, however Distrans has shown real prowess with his use of the textures in this map, combined with his fantastic brushwork, the environment looks and feels like a true functional place, the detail is outstanding! The theme comes across so strongly, it's quite amazing! Most immersive map ever! 

ok I've got the flashliht, went through the little tunnel near it and cleared out the bob and lift area. Continuing along, I just end p with a drop down ledge to the start area, what am I missing? 

and no fog here, do I have to enable it or something? 

I didn't really have a problem with them, but then I disable filtering completely in Quake because the textures are so low res, blurring them just makes them look like crap (subjective of course, but I don't want to feel like I'm playing Quake on an N64).

Sounds are awesome btw, and the use of earthquake triggers and func_trains was also cool.

But I've still not played it properly. Definitely want to try soon but I haven't been playing much Quake recently (done some mapping though :) 

And if you really thnink that the authors dont mind - go ahead and mail ID. 

That would be your job. It would be very interesting what they think indeed. Just please ask generally and do NOT point to specific releases. Maybe something like "what do you guys feel about fan-created maps and mods for your older games that use artwork from the later ones". And maybe add "do you think it is unethical if for example people even use assets from completely different games in custom works for yours", for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujQs6JVnlQU

While you are at it please also remind them of the following quote from Masters of Doom (p 116) about a Wolfenstein 3D mod:
The music had been replaced by the "I Love You, You Love Me" theme song from the children's show Barney. And instead of killing the SS boss at the end of the episode, players had to destroy the smiling purple dinosaur.
Carmack and Romero couldn't have been more pleased.
(Yes, the next sentences go into a different direction but that is about something different than what you are pushing here.)

There also is a bit how they rave about a Star Wars Doom mod (p 166).

This could be an article for QExpo. It would definitely be interesting. Most probably they will be forced to say "we cannot allow it" for contract(?) issues though, aren't they?

Please don't turn into a certain character. Spreading bad vibes makes no-one happy. 

But don't forget that if you succeed and id forces the removal of any maps and mods and whatsoever that use any of their content or IP in any way you won't get much love from anyone. 

Do you want all videos that use copyrighted music removed from youtube? 

because of this map no one will buy doom3 anymore!

looks awesome btw, haven't had a chance to play yet. 

You dont want your maps (or any of your own creations)to be used without your permission (or even despite the lack of permission), ie converted to some other game withought even mentioning author`s name and realeased under some moniker, like 'JPL'. Then why do you think its cool to use the assets from copyright protected commercial games without even asking?
Maybe if you use 2-3 sounds or textures its ok (fair use or whatever) But converting the entire set of textures and releasing freely on your own - you better ask first.
Im not going to mail ID anytning. I know what they say on such issues from q3 times.

This been explained to you by no less than 3 people. If you dot care still doesnt make it right.

and you trying to hush me threataning my 'popularity' lol 

==================================================================
SOLDIER OF FORTUNE TEXTURES CONVERTED TO QUAKE 1 .WAD FORMAT
==================================================================

Textures and materials from Raven Software games can be used to
make mods for our games or any other non-Raven game as long as
the following conditions apply:

1. Full credit must be given to Raven Software for any and all
materials used to make the mod. We don't want anyone taking
credit for our work. A complete list of what Raven material
was used should be clearly visible along with a link to
www.ravensoft.com.
2. The final product must be a free download or freely available
to the public for no charge. The materials cannot be used for
a commercial product and they can't be sold or used in any
other way to make money. That is a gross violation of our
licensing agreement.
3. Use of our materials in other games can't conflict with other
companies' End User License Agreements. If Epic's Unreal
Tournament EULA says that using our materials to mod their
game is prohibited or if they frown on it, for example, then
we don't want our materials used for this purpose. In short,
don't use our materials for a non-Raven game if the company
that made the game you're working with is going to frown on
it. That's about it...

Kenn Hoekstra
Project Administrator
Raven Software Corporation 

just as an example of company not minding the use of old games` textures in other games

Same thing ID doesnt mind the use of q2 tex (and prolly q3 too now) Not the same with their latest games.

If we - as content creators - want to get respect and retain rights over our creations we should treat other's copyright equaly. Thats my main pont, not how much money someone
gains or loses.

call me copyright nazzi or whatever, still doesnt make ripping right 

progress in the map :)

what do I do after the bob/lift bit with the vent that leads to the start area? 

If you are where I think you are then move up with the lift and (carefully) look behind the crates at the end of the room. 

Nitin, I got stuck at the same place, you need to look for something to shoot to progress, all that vent stuff was a secret area, not the way past the lasers. 

that is awesome that they did that.

I think the comparison with what we are doing (making Q1SP maps/mods) with modern game production on copyright, while it works technically, doesn't really work in practice: whereas when Q1SP started, everyone had to include disclaimers (don't sell this, don't pass it off as your own, etc), now the community is more tightly knit, no one's trying to make money/steal anything, it's all for fun, mappers often release sources and sometimes permission to release something new based on it even.

Anyway, Doom3 is already pretty old, it has already come and gone. I don't think we'd be interfering with them really, if it was their new game (even Q4) that they are currently still selling that would be different. 

I guess I am too much of a free free give give open Linux lunatic. And of course I am no artist myself in this matter. 

"Anyway, Doom3 is already pretty old, it has already come and gone. I don't think we'd be interfering with them really, if it was their new game (even Q4) that they are currently still selling that would be different."

Old or new, they still own the copyright and it's only proper to ask them for permission. 

Technical question: after installing the new graphical Catalyst driver, fog in this map (using fitzquake) seems too thick and yellow, cant see anything. Any way to fix it/disable the fog? Thanks 

on the console