if you seem sincere, why wouldn't I? 

If you're going to be picky and choosey about a company just because they make 'run-of-the-mill' games, you're not someone who will come into the industry and survive.

Be picky choosey on what type of people they have working for them, how much influence over decisions you'll have, what you'll be paid... Get a job with a company you like working with. Coming in expecting to make Quake and Katamari Damacy and big selling original games all the time only is completely naive. 

And (if you're just trying to get into the industry initially) being picky choosey at all is rolling the dice IMO, unless you have quite the portfolio. 

take what you get? 

even with preview, i still missed the post. :P
that should be "take what you can get?" 

you need to take what you can get to some extent.

The "to some extent" is modifiable, based on your overall level of expertise, up-to-date skills, flexibility, body of work, and demonstratable talent. 

pjw used the word 'demonstrable' in a proper context, which is nice. But he misspelled it, which isn't :( 

Are you baiting me? I can't give out information, and that has nothing to do with the developer. 

you missed my point.

I'm not interested in the game, I was actually kind of looking to see if Maj was gonna let on wheter or not the company was completely delusional or not.

And pjw, something else. In this industry, with salaries the way they are -- and given the general approach to creative scheduling, being picky choosey is the only way you're gonna avoid being assfucked with your pants still on. because this is, for the most part -- the overwhelming part, not a good place to be. so maybe you're better of being picky choosey and not getting in as an entry level piss-ant than just jumping in, 'cause HEY! it's game development!

this is a little bit symptomatic for many industries with lots of people pushing their hungry faces to the glass window. if you're TRYING to get in, you'll take whatever shit happened to float your way and then you hold on to it, cling to it, all the way to the process plant. then you ride it down, strangelove-style, towards the concrete. hollering all the way. And maybe you're in the industry, so good for you. but for fuck's sake, will you look at yourself? you're sitting on a turd!

Scampie is correct though, immensely and astronomically correct. The people at the company, influence and responsibility, those are things I'd look for if I wanted to get back in into the industry. (and coincidentally, future ambitions. that's a little bit what I was baiting Maj to let on, if the place felt like "nyargh, this is getting us nowhere with this crap game." or if he went "I can't say much, but it's gonna be great -- everybody is stoked, this is furthering us as a company!") 

Kell: I was a bit unsure on that, but was in a hurry. Don't know if not being in a hurry would have made much of a difference...

Wrath: maybe you're better of being picky choosey and not getting in as an entry level piss-ant than just jumping in, 'cause HEY! it's game development!

That statement is quite correct for some people in some situations (and it sounds like you're one of them), but others are willing to endure a little prison-lovin' to one degree or another, for a more-or-less limited period of time, solely in order to get into game development. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's reality at the moment.

My first job in this industry was three hours away from my house. I would say goodbye to my wife on Monday morning, sleep on the floor under my desk (literally) on a thermarest pad for four nights, and then come home Friday evening. I did that for almost two years while I made Q3 levels in the evenings and expanded my portfolio. Thank God there were on-site showers.

Does that make me a stupid fuck? Maybe. But I'd do it again. I love making games. 

hey, I'm not trying to piss in anybody's face, if you feel you're ok with it, fine by me. the thing for me though is, I've done that once, and I don't feel like doing it again for just any little buttfuck outfit... If I were to be part of a start-up myself, able to influence my own and others work situation, I'd probably take alot of under-the-desk nights. and I'm not trying to be mr. game development here, I spent a year and a half in the industry -- but I think if I'd get back in today, I'd be way more valuable than a freshman -- 18 months can be much of an experience, they were for me. so, yeah -- I'm choosey, I can afford to be because one, I'm not desperate. And two, I'll bring something to the table.

The thing though, is that when you're being pissed on, chances are you'll get out sooner rather than later. my advice to anyone looking to get into the industry is to either make sure it's a good place -- don't take any shit just because you're doing games -- or don't fucking get in. get an education instead, and polish your portfolio in the evenings until you can be choosey. 

I have another semester left here at Central Michigan University and would really like to break into the industry but I'm lost. I'm getting a degree in Info Tech with a Multimedia speciality, and a minor in Journalism. I figured while the journalism minor won't be too appealing, it will still look good with employers cause it will show I know how to write well. (Sham don't say anything cause I know what you're thinking)

Are there internships or anything? I've looked and I just get lost. There isn't anyone on campus that I can get advising on for this profession, which is rather lame considering it's a multibillon dollar business. Most everyone who has been around since Qboard has gotten in, so what advice do you guys have? Help a 22 year-old kid would ya? 

many companies have interships, and that's a great way to break in if you're up for it.

my advice to anyone looking to get into the industry is to either make sure it's a good place -- don't take any shit just because you're doing games -- or don't fucking get in. get an education instead, and polish your portfolio in the evenings until you can be choosey.

Exactly, see if the place has good people you like working with. EA will scoop you up and eat your soul if you 'just want in the game dev industry', but then you'll be in and out. Other smaller companies can also put the whips to their employees and you want to be sure to avoid that... big questions to ask are 'what time am I required to be at my desk daily?' and 'how well do you guys deal with crunch times?'. be sure you're not required a 12 hour day with crunch all the time.

any game you work on can be rewarding also... as long as you're not just 'the guy who makes the seats that a placed by anouther guy into the statium a modeler made to place on the field some other guy made'... go for a company that let's you do things and you can make decisions on wht you're doing, what it does, etc etc. being a cog isn't what you want. 

Where would one look or call? A quick glace through Monster.com for video game seemed to bring up some stuff, but they are mostly just positions, not internships specifically. I actually need to complete an internship to get my degree so that's specifically what I am looking for.

I figured, and based on the discussion above, I can't be choosey cause I'm just an entry level grunt with only amature experience, nothing on a shipping title. 

Just email a bunch of companies you know (using whatever their jobs@ or whatever contact is given for such) with your resume asking if they offer any interships 

I'm choosey, I can afford to be because one, I'm not desperate. And two, I'll bring something to the table. Good for you. Seriously. <--Not sarcastic in the slightest.

I think we're making the same argument from slightly different starting points. Bottom line: Be as picky as you can afford to be.

(Prod, my biggest advice is simply Make Cool Shit. Using most-recent tech/engine is usually a good thing. You do that and you will get hired; assuming you're at least able to communicate via rudimentary grunts and plants don't wilt from your unwashed bod. :) If your Shit's Cool enough, you *can* be picky.) 

I agree with pjw -- go make something. I applied for a job at EA, just kinda hoping I might get in on a long shot, but I realized my best maps were Quake maps, and that probably isn't going to fly for potential employers. So right now I'm down in the trenches, hurling brushes like they were grenades, trying to win the war.

Prod -- we all know you. The best advice for you mate is to just not think or worry about all this stuff before you've even put a map together. Go make some cool stuff, and the jobs will follow. 

forget about gamedev, even tho u supposedly dont mind some anal fun, journalism is far better 

As someone says "Making chairs or shoes" etc won't help you in the long term. So if you find yourself in that situation, the company is putting their interests ahead of your career then I would start looking for another job immediately.

Don't bother feeling loyalty towards them. Leave as soon as you can. They will do the same to you.

Personally - I wouldn't bother, making games can be extremely stressful and unrewarding especially if you are working on a shit or average game (which you probably will be given the odds). I would just stick to playing games if.... I could go back in time. 

We Are Currently Looking For A Mapper Texture Artist For Our Upcomming Game Terror Xero
if you might be interested and would
like to find out more email me at alienheretic@earthlink.net
Subject: Terrror Xero
and ill fill ya in on the details 

 

http://www.supervillainstudios.com/enlist2.htm

Super Villain Studios is looking for a level designer. They want some experiance with 3D Studio Max, plus some level design experiance... which basically translates to any of you Quake guys who have at least some experiance with Max and a handful of levels to show off, this would be a good opportunity to get in somewhere. It's full time, so you'd be moving out to California, where the sun is warm and the babes are hot, woo woo! 

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=6953

"as much as I don't like what's been said about our company and our industry, I recognize that at the heart of the matter is a core truth."

ie: it's 100% true and I can't find a way to contradict it. 

Don't worry about getting into gamedev Prod. Just enjoy mapping and they will come to you. 

where the sun is warm and the babes are hot and the rent is high and the mud is sliding and the earth is quaking and the governor is Austrian