OK, but if someone is able to use QC extensions (or, hm, if someone is able to create game levels, even) I would expect them to be able to take DP's particlefont image and just paint themselves some nice new particles, even blocky ones if they want.

If too many particles spawn, well, the particles are customizable so someone could write a vanilla set with square blocks instead of dots.

Waterwarp is gonna have to be a shader. You can probably do it with a Q3 shader, but I think MH wrote some pretty cool waterwarp GLSL some time back that could be ripped. Perhaps there's even a cvar for Quake-style waterwarp.

I'm just saying these issues are not insurmountable for people who routinely create game content. IMHO getting to use the QC extensions is worth a little investment polishing the particles and whatnot.

Just as an example, hipnotic and I believe Chapters (and who knows, maybe Quoth) uses copyentity implemented in QC. It's in hordespawn I believe. That is absolutely horrible for various reasons. DP has a nice simple builtin that does that. Same for many other things. It's just an improvement to have such things provided as engine builtins any way you look at it.

I agree that it should have a "vanilla preset" like FTE does though.

Regarding DP-only, well, a lot of maps are Fitz/QS-only in practice, which is the same thing. DP is easy to install and free.

On the other hand, extensions could be added to Fitzquake etc, but that's gonna be significantly more work and you need engine coders to do it, whereas most of the other stuff can be done by content authors.

Just my 2 cents. 

Cheers. One of the absolute most basic requirements of a custom quake engine should be that it's possible to make it look like vanilla Quake.

Otherwise, well there's your reason no-one uses it here I guess. 

Well it sounds plausible that a modder could jump through a ton of hoops and make DP look quakey enough to please most people for a specific mod, but I don't think that will help it be adopted much.

My reasoning is that I'm assuming most of us quakers really just want to have a single engine of choice for all our quaking needs - fitz, QS, whatever - it works for everything, or at least 90% of everything. If DP only looks acceptable on maps/mods designed specifically to work around all the silly eyecandy stuff, then I don't think that's a great solution. 

I love DP (darkplaces not double penatration) and wouldn't use anything else. Maybe it takes a bit of getting used to, but I go back to fitz and other engines are find them a bit vanilla. Also there's lots of maps that say "don't use DP due to bugs", but I still use it and never come across any of these so-called bugs. 

I started trying to use DP to get some cool texture effects going, but the shader tech in DP has some pretty severe limitations and being spoiled by Doom3, I kind of grew frustrated with it.

And then there are some fundamental changes to how some things work in the engine that break some QC stuff that relies on the original behaviour and tracking down the console variables you need to set to revert back to the old behaviour is annoying. 

"I go back to fitz and other engines are find them a bit vanilla"

That's what the rest of us LIKE about those engines. :P 

DP is great. It's just that to me and the way I generally use Quake it feels too "awkward" to use compared to ports like Fitz/QS - too complex in its usage and features/settings, too slow in terms of loading times.

In a larger, more active community, I guess it would've been more established as a modding platform, similar to ZDoom, but Quake doesn't have that anymore. For the remaining people the costs of making something DP-only may not justify or outweigh the "costs" in most cases. 

*benefits/"costs" 

Damn it, someone make me a moderator just so I can edit my stupid posts.. 

what willem said, it's hardly a gfx fancy game in terms of content. 

So yea.. it keeps going. And I have a few other sections I still need to brush out! Madness. I am enjoying this mapping thing though.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1849053/Quake_Mapping_06.jpg 

Some interesting designs in there. See if you can work on interconnectivity a bit too. 

old sky meh:

http://i.imgur.com/Aas7Mtn.jpg

new skybox hotness:

http://i.imgur.com/MSq6U56.jpg

Note the nice new knight.mdl. Aww.

I think the new sky/fog looks way better. 

But yes, map? 

the town of Laketown from The Hobbit. 

I like the tone of the rocks and the sky.... 

Yeah new sky/fog looks definitely better. 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/161473/Misc/QuakeAO.jpg

AO or not, this screenshot fucking owns. 

but I know that's some nice design there :) 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion 

look in the mapping help thread for more of the pretties.

In short - we have a new toy! 

qriple zomby

info_light makes the light origin so dimm,
hard to believe that spots emmiting so much light.
already over 720 ents while the limit is 620. 

Looks really good MF. Definitely need to get some small radius lights near those light textures. Other than that though I'm liking what I see. 

Those screenies look like '96 - '97 era screenshots.
Do you have an old PC? (just wondering)