Did some checking of this on Nightmare skill, quicksaving before that room with 35 GA and 100 Health (which would seem a fair start).

It is possible to survive fairly consistently, but you always take a LOT of damage. The least I managed to get was 70 damage taken, but 90-120 was far more common. The Shamb isn't consistent with his behaviour, sometimes he will lightening even when you are right next to him.

The best I could manage was to go right up to him (firing NG all the time), circle behind him (taking 30 L damage), circle out again when he tried to melee, this leaves him further towards the vent so you can get cover from the corner for the next L attack, then he moves out and you take another 30 L damage, and then 10 or so from his final L attack when he dies.

It is also possible to alert him, run away, shoot a bit while he can't L you, then move into the room and take a bit of damage - but there's no guarantee you won't end up on the wrong side of the closing door. 

was about to say: shmamblers demo actually reinforces my point, i think. All he's doing (and he's forced to!) is exploiting map/geometry and monster ai.

when i played it (skill 1, though), i found the shambler, the flying bat drones and the turret drones to be easiest ;) 

Time for some sense about this map.

Firstly, there are some obvious genuine problems:

1. The Shambler combat is broken. It doesn't work. End of story.

2. The start is unbalanced because you don't have enough options / supplies yet.

3. The final slime room is unbalanced because you're trapped and without knowing what's going to spawn where, it's unfair.

Those could be fixed easily: Couple less spawning monsters at the start, replace the Shambler with one of those Quake2 nail/saw mutant walker things (this is very obvious), slower Plasma Cunt spawns in the final slime room.

Apart from that the map is good, and this is why:

I've realised Distrans is doing what I was talking about before: Exploring new types of Quake gameplay. This is a low supplies / low power / limited manouverability / ranged enemy / exploration essential map. It is different to normal Quake but that is a good thing. Okay it needs some custom enemy to make that difference but those custom enemy are not that esoteric. But he is exploring new gameplay, just as Speeds Cogs map did or Warpspasm did.

Watching my demo made me realise this: It's very cautious, very patient, and as mega says, using geometry and AI to best effect. Because that's what the map demands. Most of the combats are actually fair if you play in the way the map demands (not all of them tho).

So, although it is obviously flawed, the concept is still a good one. Like Cogs, like Warpspasm, it's trying something new and it's a good start. What it needs is for people to be aware of the different gameplay and what it requires (just like, say, the requirement not to try to complete a Warp map in one sitting).

(Oh and this is not even considering the "This map is not designed to be completed first attempt" concept - I believe that initially *seemed* to be the concept in this map because of the few unbalanced combats that skewed the impression of the map overall - that concept could still be explored a lot fuller (yes, a whole map as "fun" as the start / shamb room / finish of this map....:S)). 

not complete, one lagged to death, the other died at the laser beams (fried!?)
http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/dis_sp6-again.dz

http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/dis_sp6-yetagainheapsize.dz

if someone's interested in my style :P

(it's probably similar to shamlbers,this map.. well, you know the story :P) 

YE it�s not all Distrans fall the game play...
scragbait, JPL, negke and sielwolf forgot to make a proper gameplay test in nightmare... 

is right.
slower plasma cunts please, that was my doom... 

this map reminds me of "Corporal Punishment II" sort of. 

I haven't played this map but I'm intrigued by all the comments about its "Doom 3-like" gameplay. Wasn't Doom 3 all about cheap ambushes but at the same time giving enough health and armour so that the player was never really in any actual danger of dying? 

Enjoyable map, I quite liked it and didn't find it too difficult. I'll probably give it a few more plays before I give it a full review. Nicw work. 

The textures are amazing (never played Doom III). They almost seem cell-shaded, but are a little too ... brash and bright ? I f-ing love them.

Ambience had me fairly worried at one point, and the doom buttons seem appropriate. At the beginning of the game, i was muttering.. "Half-Life, Half-Life!" for some reason.
Just the intricacy of the indoor environs i think.

Quite liked the gameplay... though those suffering machine slowdown would find it annoying. (I've a 2ghz K8, 512M DDR400, FX5600). Well hard on skill 1, and Edie is a great door keeper. Laugh.

Had a quick look at the coloured lighting... Holy cow. Have to play it again when fitz is finally running well on linux. (And sound crashes my fitzquake beta just after the intro). 

You rock so hard. The overall look to the map is just so perfect, even if I still think the textures don't carry over well into Quakeland. You so need to make a D3 map, for real =D 

Played it. I liked it, except some areas had mad-crazy frame rate problems until I did that -heapsize 48000 thing. Really hard, had to continuously save/load, especially the last area, which I just kind of ran past the enemies to get to the lift to exit the map. Not bad, definitely a different style of map, very difficult.

Some of the 'secrets' were awkward, since they were useless once I actually found them (the trinity, for example.)

Other than some valid complaints others may have mentioned, I thought it was good. 

btw check it in fitz vs aguirre quake - it looks much darker more contrast in fitz, with pitchblack shadows everywhere 

that applies to most maps though. 

...this level of discussion is very heartening, thank you one and all. As speeds pointed out, the strength and diversity of reaction means I may well have produced a piece of art. Very satisfying...

I'm glad Shambler cottoned to my raison detre, after I decided to make it more than a lighting exercise (in Fitz specifically), this level was constructed with one eye firmly on the 'gameplay' thread. I initially tried for that 'more than adequate ammo / low health / oodles of armour / low monster count' idea, and some of this stayed through development. I wanted the thing to be 'nail heavy' but in such a compact level I thought introducing the SNG would be overkill. Mistake number one :) The SNG should replace the SSG in the Exit area in ALL skill levels. This I now feel would've made the rolling spawn fest after GK pick-up more enjoyable in general and even more survivable (first time round) on skill 2.

The shambler combat is broken on nightmare (I - not my testers - keep forgetting about that damn skill level), which means the combat shouldn't be there at all...and I think I'll add that one to my list of "gameplay axioms".

I wanted this one to be different, and in doing so made a couple of mistakes. I learn... maybe we all did/do.

Plenty to celebrate though, thanks again! 

ok, this seem to be a nice level but very hard and unbalanced... here's my first run demo where i tried to survive using godmode at health 14, but still failed http://vondur.net/files/vdisp6.7z

also, the game's fps dropped down to unplayable levels (<1fps) in certain areas and when certain monsters where attacking me, making it unplayable. so i was unable to finish it... 

This map really isn't that hard even on nightmare when you play cautiously (and know the shambler dance) but like others have said, not very classic-quakey. Awesome textures and soundscape even though they were all ripped from Doom 3 :) . Would definitely play more of this..

Vondur - you need "-heapsize 48000" on the command line to fix the unplayable framerate after those first plasma-grunts. 

Again, this one is perfect, the only problem is that it makes me want more. It is more Doom3 than Doom3 itself ever was. Is it the first D3 textured level for Quake1? Is the texture pack available for other mappers? How about to map something like this RickyT23, you have similar style. Can we hope to see more maps made in this style?

I don�t know how can somebody complain about textures (fit better than original IDbase ones IMHO) or difficulty (skill 0 is just fine+placing enemies is about 1% of mappers work only, it is all about brushwork and texturing and lighting, which all are perfect in Ruined Nation).

Absolutely kewl level. Doom3 meets Half-Life1 here. I love all the details (lifting jetplane behind glass walls etc. etc.). Anybody found the SSG+slime secret yet?

There are no more sound related slowdowns after starting the game this way:

fitzquake080 -hipnotic -game quoth -heapsize 48000 +sv_aim 1 +skill 0 +sv_aim 1 +gl_texturemode gl_nearest -gl_texsort 0 -gl_detail 1 +gl_flashblend 1 +map dis_sp6 

I do love the brushwork and textures! But try it on nightmare, and you'll see the problem!

Honestly though the textures dont work well in the quake 8-bit pallette, I think some of them work better than others, however Distrans has shown real prowess with his use of the textures in this map, combined with his fantastic brushwork, the environment looks and feels like a true functional place, the detail is outstanding! The theme comes across so strongly, it's quite amazing! Most immersive map ever! 

ok I've got the flashliht, went through the little tunnel near it and cleared out the bob and lift area. Continuing along, I just end p with a drop down ledge to the start area, what am I missing? 

and no fog here, do I have to enable it or something? 

I didn't really have a problem with them, but then I disable filtering completely in Quake because the textures are so low res, blurring them just makes them look like crap (subjective of course, but I don't want to feel like I'm playing Quake on an N64).

Sounds are awesome btw, and the use of earthquake triggers and func_trains was also cool.

But I've still not played it properly. Definitely want to try soon but I haven't been playing much Quake recently (done some mapping though :) 

And if you really thnink that the authors dont mind - go ahead and mail ID. 

That would be your job. It would be very interesting what they think indeed. Just please ask generally and do NOT point to specific releases. Maybe something like "what do you guys feel about fan-created maps and mods for your older games that use artwork from the later ones". And maybe add "do you think it is unethical if for example people even use assets from completely different games in custom works for yours", for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujQs6JVnlQU

While you are at it please also remind them of the following quote from Masters of Doom (p 116) about a Wolfenstein 3D mod:
The music had been replaced by the "I Love You, You Love Me" theme song from the children's show Barney. And instead of killing the SS boss at the end of the episode, players had to destroy the smiling purple dinosaur.
Carmack and Romero couldn't have been more pleased.
(Yes, the next sentences go into a different direction but that is about something different than what you are pushing here.)

There also is a bit how they rave about a Star Wars Doom mod (p 166).

This could be an article for QExpo. It would definitely be interesting. Most probably they will be forced to say "we cannot allow it" for contract(?) issues though, aren't they?

Please don't turn into a certain character. Spreading bad vibes makes no-one happy. 

But don't forget that if you succeed and id forces the removal of any maps and mods and whatsoever that use any of their content or IP in any way you won't get much love from anyone.