Let's also bitch about how Quake maps are slower/harder to build/longer to compile than Doom maps because of all the bullshit innovations. 

All realistic games suck. 

I see your point, and you may be right.

However, I quite liked the (macro) detail and uniqueness of RAGE. It didn't feel like detail overload and the environment always had my attention... of course, that could be because the game had absolutely nothing else to offer.

The idea of greyboxing is to give the level designer total freedom in terms of gameplay. Later, the artist can "make it work", making giant, area specific textures which gives the artist flexibility needed to do that.

So far, my little test is coming out much better than I expected. The mapping is easier, the texturing is easy and it's looking really cool.

I'll post my results in a week or so. 

Number of games (non-id & excluding expansion packs) shipped on Quake3 engine licenses, according to Wikipedia: 15

Doom3 engine: 6

Rage engine: 2


Do the Unreal or Crytek engines only support one lighting path? They must, if it's such a brilliant streamline. How about fully virtualized textures and geometry? 

mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4
This is so 2011. 

wasn't that video panned as just a play for investment capital? 

Well, you know, billions of voxels are really just a poor form of compression. What we need are actual digital atoms. 

Seems like a pretty shitty form of compression, although then again we seem to be getting some hints that it's more efficient than we think 

To the best of my knowledge he's never made a level. Carmack is an engine guy. That's not a bad thing or a pejorative statement but as I see it it's not in his toolset to be creative outside of programming. I liken him to the guy who lays rebar, makes forms and pours concrete into them. He makes the foundations that great buildings stand upon, but I wouldn't call him an architect even though the architecture wouldn't stand without him making the foundations that they sit upon.

This line of thought brings to mind some other people. For example Henry Ford made a blanket decision that all of his cars would be painted black. It was a wise decision in that it streamlined the production process but soon enough people were paying extra money to get their cars painted in colors other than black. Ford made the cars but others added color. As I see it Carmack is the Henry Ford of the gaming world. 

"Pure" mapper's perspective is also limited. 

Without a doubt. But I will say that the mapper has to learn the limitations made by the engine so they tend to understand what they can or cannot do. The guy who makes the foundation doesn't always know what will be built upon it so it has to be both robust and flexible. Carmack did that well and I have a lot of respect for what he did. But, his vision was in programming the engine and what it could do, not the levels themselves.

Doom and Quake were both built upon Carmack's engines. What came out of it wasn't Carmacks doing any more than any work of art was made by the people manufacturing the paint, stretching the canvas or quarrying the stone. 

I think at some point he made some deliberate decisions relating to what sort of game he wanted to see, including its environments; he seems to have dealt with mappers' requests with impatience. I think he did have a vision of the games and that the limitations of his programming reflected that. The artists worked within his context and that context was certainly not mostly unconscious. 

I understand the analogy somewhat, but I think that creating an innovative engine is a bit different from manufacturing some generic tools for artists. You can't do the former without a slightest idea of what you want to see in a finished product. That's the problem with Carmack's latest efforts - they're too focused on certain goals, and therefore are less flexible. 

Holy hell ... Look, the quote in question is in regards to selling megatexture as an alternative to levels mapped with tiling textures. His point being that all tiling textures are is a form of texture compression - he has a valid point.

I don't know why the argument that Carmack never made a level raised it's head here, but it was never argued that he HAD so we can leave that one outside for now.

Technologically speaking, the quote is correct.

Ask any artist (at least the ones I know) if they'd prefer tiling textures or unique textures and they will almost always choose unique. Tiling textures, however, are more realistic for shipping games but I think that's more of a workflow/storage issue than a visual or aesthetics one.

So if uniquely texturing worlds ever becomes as easy, workflow wise, as applying tiling textures you can bet money that it will become the standard. 

Also, unique textures =/= realism.

To me, megatexturing just makes the art (realistic, surreal, cartoony, whatever) more rich and interesting. 

To me it justifies a $59.99USD price tag and 50GB of data XD 

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IIAMOk7l.png[/IMG] 

http://i.imgur.com/IIAMOk7l.png 

Looks nice! 

makes me want to go on a doom binge 

1 2 3 4 - Kell 

So good. I remember these... Are they lost forever, or are you advertising that you have the source? 

please tell me you will be finishing those, neg!!! i loved them back when he started them and they are still amazing. 

I don't have the source. Just stumbled upon the screenshot while searching for a particular video for mocking sock and thought I'd share them for inspiration. 

That implies you still have them!?