Certain entities force angles to be '0 0 0' regardless of the settings from the map. This includes func_wall and func_illusionary. This comes for the standard quake source. Quoth doesn't change this and it probably wouldn't be wise to do so for reasons of backwards compatibility with existing maps.

If you want an entity class with an external model which you can set angles on, I recommend mapobject_custom. It also allows you to select if the entity is made static or not, which might be helpful if a) you're running out of static ents or b) you need to do something dynamic with it.

As a final cool hint, mapobject_custom has MOVETYPE_NOCLIP. While it would probably be of limited use to set the velocity of the entity, this also enables you to set avelocity on one and it will rotate. This is a very cheap and easy way to create rotating fans in base style maps.

If you're worried about the loss of solid clipping because you previously used func_walls instead, I should warn you that rotated bsp model don't provide correct clipping in most engines - so even if func_walls supported it user experiences would range from inconsistent to broken. Luckily you are protected from this by virtue of it not being possible... 

hehe giving a custom map object an angle but not setting it as static does make the collision go bonkers :D
With the collision off it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for now cheers :)

ps func_togglewall is almost but not quite the most useful thing ever :p 

Hi,

I'm getting back into BSP. Ironically, in the past I knew these things but... Are there users of BSP (Quake Editor) that know how to use Vertex Manipulation in 2d window? Or how to make it easier in 3d?

Basicly, I remember it was very easy for me to create a sword-shape from a rectangle by just selecting the vertex in the middle on the side of the rectangular brush and then just pull it outward, like you can see in this Worldcraft tut @ Vertex Manipulation section:
http://www.quake-1.com/wc16a-tutorial/brushes.html 

How does that work again. All dynamic entities get sent over the network and having too many of them at once causes overflow. Static entities on the other hand don't generate network traffic. So lots of func_illusionaries are more favorable than lots of func_walls. Does that sound about right? 

http://www.bspquakeeditor.com/index.php 

I did not post the above message #11111

And to that poster: of course I 'tried there', but the info is NOT to be found on that website, nor is it in the manual or readme files. It only mentions how to enable vertex dragging by setting vertex_select_mode "2" in the bsp.cfg but it does not mention the actual process of vertex manipulation....anywhere. 

yes, changing func_wall to func_illusionary would decrease edicts, and increase static entities, and could reduce packet overflows if you convert enough of them. 

Does it reduce detail of hull 1 if you convert lots of illusionaries to func_walls? i.e. a reduction of clipnodes and whatever else? 

not the other way round, sorry. 

walls and illusionaries are identical as far as QBSP is concerned, so they have no change on the bsp complexity... 

"does not mention the actual process of vertex manipulation....anywhere"

...apart from lesson 7 in the tutorials. However, I do not believe it is as advanced as shown in the Worldcraft tutorials as there is no central handle. I have not searched the BspEditor configs to see if there is a setting for that so you might look there if you have not already done so.

But dragging and cutting and shearing will get you any (legal) shape you want. 

I know that tutorial and that's not what I mean. I really mean the stuff you see in the WC tut. I know for a fact that BSP can do that, you can have the same handles on the brush and I don't mean those corners but handles that are between the corners, just as in the WC tut.

Basicly, you can already do this in the 3d window in BSP on default, but I remember there was an easier way and it drives me nuts that I forgot about it, because it was way faster then cutting and shearing. 

I should mail the author... 

Could someone see if this map loads in worldcraft? I saved earlier, closed worldcraft, and now it magically doesn't open. WC reports 1456256322345 solids not being loaded because of errors in the file.

:( 

I've already recreated what I lost. 

Sometimes it is handy to know what you've done wrong, before recreating it.

I did a quick search with notepath and concluded you reached an unknown punctuation at line 885.

}
}
{


Here's the corrected map in disregard:
http://members.home.nl/gimli/tl_.map 

Ambient sounds. Are there any technical limits or issues with them that would limit you from putting quite a few in, and is it possible to get rid of that wind noise when the player is near sky? 

yes, there are some limitations on ambient sounds. there is a hard limit on how many can be placed in a map. i believe this is 128.
other than that, it's the only way to get ambient sounds in the engine.
remember though, while 128 may seem like a lot, flames and torches all automatically start an ambient sound, so if you have a group of 4 or 5 flames, that's 4 or 5 ambients wasted, pretty much where a single ambient would have been fine.
and yes, you can get rid of the sky sound in two ways.
a) the shitty hack way is to just make the wind2.wav silent. this is not great since it affects all maps, not just one.
b) use the -noambientsky switch on aguirre's vis to disable the sound of sky. (-noambientwater will take off the water sound and -noambient takes off both)
you can even do this after a map has been compiled and full vised. just run vis again (with the completed state file still in the place) and it will update the sound effects. 

Ah cool. Pretty generous limit then really :) 

MAX_CHANNELS is 128 in standard engines.

But, it turns out you only get to use 116 of those channels for ambients, because there are 4 reserved channels for the hard-coded ambients (water,sky,slime,lava) and there are 8 "dynamic" channels used for pretty much every other sound in the game (gunfire, jump, pain, death, etc, etc.)

So you can have 116 of: torches, ambient_* and light_fluoro_buzz entities before you get an error about "MAX_CHANNELS".

Note, in Fitzquake 0.80+ (and derivatives), and in AguirRe's engines, and probably Darkplaces, the MAX_CHANNELS limit has been raised quite a bit. For example it's 512 in Fitzquake, with 128 dynamics, and 4 hard-coded ambients, leaving 380 channels for static sounds. 

If your level has many torches and flames and you're getting into the MAX_CHANNELS warnings, you can turn some of them into point func_illusionaries with a "model" "flame2.mdl" field and use a regular light entitiy for the brightness. This will creats a silent flame. It's useful in areas with several flames in close proximity where one sound is enough; or if they are so far away it wouldn't be heard by the player anyway. 

Nobody should need to do that hackery anymore today, unless you're mapping for DOSquake or something. 

 

There're still many people who play with Winquake or Glquake. If you're making a protocol 15 map, this is just another limitation to keep in mind. 

At my stage it'll probably be barely playable in Darkplaces because of high monster counts in several places, never mind vanilla Quake :)

But it's good to know for future reference.