I think relentless is a fair assessment of some of the Quoth monsters. On investigation, I found that sometimes they were literally more relentless than stock monsters in nightmare. When the patch notes for 2.2 say that the "contrast" between nightmare and other skills has been increased, translateed that says the worst offenders have had such behaviour shoved into nightmare where it belongs, and more resemble Quake creatures in skills 0-2. 

I get the flak Quoth receives despite my personal love for the additions on offer, but I've always felt bob criticism was weird -especially after he got retooled. his pattern is very easy to master, I think. 

I think that sometimes designers will design a monster that's numerically in line with Quake monsters, but put one in a test box with a pillar in the middle, easily kill it without being hurt, and think "oh, I need to make that way harder." Thing is, every existing Quake monster fails that test too. You can even (laboriously, with practice) solo a Shambler with the axe just by doing the "shambler dance." The danger of a Quake monster doesn't come from its abilities, it comes from how those abilities overlap with other monsters, with surrounding architecture, with where the player's attention is focused, and with how his movement is constrained.

Meanwhile, the whole Quoth menagerie has homing shots and perfect leading shots and hitscan attacks with no anticipation frames and every new dude is like his own miniboss.

this is supposed to be the screenshots thread

You're right!

http://lunaran.com/pics/lunsp2/lunsp2_0019.jpg 

 

That looks more moldy than my 92 year old grandmother, and I like it! 

to people complaining about actual discussion taking place on this forum for a change: Calm down. 

Bring back the forge screenshot! 

use rubicon monsters, they are fairly nonthreatening when spawned alone in a cube room :) 

I really liked Singularity, it's an underrated game. I didn't realise it had such a scrappy development. Ironically I think it's a better game than Wolverine Origins in pretty much every single area.

Funny that it had such big issues running in ps3/xbox - the levels are all pretty small and linear for 2010. 

I know there's Hellraid, but I always hoped Raven would be able to return to their roots. I guess I hoped for the same thing with Human Head. Hell even with id, since they've done nothing in 10 years that reminds me of their old stuff. I especially suck at letting things go, but from Heretic 1/2 to Call of Duty franchise work just depresses me. We all know the masser the market, the dumber, but I'm sure all of us have seen the same commercial influence corrupt things - the parallels with music aren't too hard to see. 

Saw this on reddit, pertinent to a previous discussion...

http://imgur.com/LI3UBoN 

Fuck yes. Love the moldy mildew monolith deal you're showcasing there. I'd say I can't wait to play it, but I guess the last couple years prove otherwise. That shot has me more excited than Sock's though, which is saying something! 

reminds me of the atmosphere from another game, cant quite remember what though! But love it. 

http://www.simonoc.com/images/design/sp/metmon2l.jpg 

yeah looks great lun (once I put it into photoshop to turn the brightness up hehe) 

Kona

Seriously. :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/161473/Misc/LunShot.jpg

Cool shot though! 

hehe exactly willem 

man up you pussies! lunsp2 is for hardcore players who cover their windows with black tape! 

i love the massive height of that hall. something that might be a cool theme would be a map where every room and hallway must been taller than it is wide except where absolutely necessary. 

For the common sense - see, you ARE capable of it.

But, it's not just about the difficulty or the imbalance, it's about the annoyance - Bobs are one of the easier Quoth enemies, but fighting them is annoying due to their size, dodge mechanics, and distracting attack. 

For one of the maps, I've set the goal that the player starts near the very top of the valid grid, and the exit must be near the very bottom. All (or nearly all) the 768^2 maps had the player start at the bottom and ascend, which is a very natural progression to the point of being the default. I wanted to see what the hurdles were in designing a map where the player is always descending, deeper and deeper, without just stacking locked chambers.

http://lunaran.com/pics/lunsp2/m2editor_side.png

Discouraging shortcuts is tricky in a game without falling damage, as is creating combat scenarios where monsters below you are still threatening.

When I build it out for real it'll be fun to transition the visuals to an extreme degree as you descend, so it feels like you're disappearing into the bowels of the earth. 

yes, i've tried going from top to bottom as well and those problems are why i never followed through with a complete map.

finding ways to stop the player just jumping down without flat out putting walls everywhere is a huge challenge. I am curious to see you complete this map just so I can see what you end up using. :) 

HTH 

Lunaran, what editor are you using?