awesome look forward to it. 

Pixel Spires 

They are fucking annoying to fight against. Not hard, just annoying.

Map looks rad tho. 

Change them for Sentinels?

Those are a bit more runic than tech and don't have the dodge behaviour. 

Man up, you pussies. Bobs are much less annoying than any other Quoth enemy.

Sentinels are most likely too slow/poorly visible for that environment. 

Bob is rad for its retro look (rivaled only by Floyd from Rubicon 2) and death sequence (I dunno, I just like it). 

Really interesting read. I enjoyed the little I played, but the the shoddy DRM (game freezes when not connected internet) broke it for me :(

Steam is DRM enough, I wish publishers would stop bogging down their products with this crap. 

Cliche up, negke, you macho nob.

Actually, sentinel's slowness would work well in the void I think, it could add some vibe to it, especially if they have patrol routes. 

I should have faith in sock, I doubt even Quoth can ruin his reliably fine gameplay balance. 

Man up, you pussies.

The new enemies are belligerently unfun. Each one feels like Doom3's "bludgeon the player and call it a challenge" design philosophy brought to Quake.

I could tolerate this at first for the sake of playing cool maps from the community, but it became a dealbreaker when some in the community made clear their attitude that it was my fault. Quoth can apparently only be appreciated by people better than me, because I'm a pussy.

I won't even read the news post for a new map farther than the word Quoth anymore, regardless of who made it or how cool it looks, because I already know everything I need to.

For sock, I'd make an exception. Good thing Quoth implements impulse 205! 

Doom3 was challenging? That's news to me.

This is how Doom3 "bludgeoned" the player:

"Ok now, we're gonna spawn not one, not two, but THREE enemies in your general vicinity. Be ready, we're giving you all the ques that this is going to happen... hey, here it comes, get ready. It's coming. Aim your weapon, use your WASD keys. Here it comes. We're gonna spawn them one at a time, just in case you get flustered, ok? Get ready. Actually. Nevermind, here's a scary sound and a medpack."

NIGHTMARE mode was such a missed opportunity in that game. They had the chance to offer a challenging difficulty setting, instead it's just veteran with decreasing health :| 

There are two sides to the issue, in my view. I agree the gameplay in many Quoth maps can easily become annoying, but is it because the enemies are designed in a bad way or because the authors use them in a bad way?
Probably a bit of both: It seems to me they were intentionally designed to be more difficult in order to provide a high-tier supplement to the stock enemies much like the occasional fiend and shambler in a base or medieval map. However, authors often use them as replacements for regular enemies which results in a much harder overall experience rather than situational difficulty spikes.

So perhaps a misunderstanding on both parts. Designers wanted high-tier supplements while mappers expected normal-type additions for extended variety. Add to that a possible veteran player mindset on both sides and the result is frustrating gameplay.

I don't mean to bash people for not liking the new enemies, prefering less taxing combat, simply being not as hardcore players as others. Shambler being the exception of course! :) However, in the case of Bob, I don't understand the hate it often gets. It's not unbalanced in terms of health and damage like several other Quoth monster; the only thing that sets it apart from the regular enemies, in a positive way IMO, is its unique attack behavior which I don't consider difficult to read and master at all, there's no randomness or unfair behavior. 

Sock
Let me be you're betterman(live) 

i'd like to here , whats happened to D4 beta
anybody in 

I had no idea people disliked Quoth's gameplay until, I think it was with ARWOP, someone said that Drake was just like Quoth - I thought that was a good thing but apparently not!
Personally I think Quoth is great, but apparently I've underestimated the traditionalism here, even though I didn't even use a skybox until 2008.
Anyway it's nice to see forum activity and Sock screenshots. 

this is supposed to be the screenshots thread. not some debate thread. 

discussion goes where ever discussion currently is. over the long run, the thread will go back to it's original purpose. 

I think relentless is a fair assessment of some of the Quoth monsters. On investigation, I found that sometimes they were literally more relentless than stock monsters in nightmare. When the patch notes for 2.2 say that the "contrast" between nightmare and other skills has been increased, translateed that says the worst offenders have had such behaviour shoved into nightmare where it belongs, and more resemble Quake creatures in skills 0-2. 

I get the flak Quoth receives despite my personal love for the additions on offer, but I've always felt bob criticism was weird -especially after he got retooled. his pattern is very easy to master, I think. 

I think that sometimes designers will design a monster that's numerically in line with Quake monsters, but put one in a test box with a pillar in the middle, easily kill it without being hurt, and think "oh, I need to make that way harder." Thing is, every existing Quake monster fails that test too. You can even (laboriously, with practice) solo a Shambler with the axe just by doing the "shambler dance." The danger of a Quake monster doesn't come from its abilities, it comes from how those abilities overlap with other monsters, with surrounding architecture, with where the player's attention is focused, and with how his movement is constrained.

Meanwhile, the whole Quoth menagerie has homing shots and perfect leading shots and hitscan attacks with no anticipation frames and every new dude is like his own miniboss.

this is supposed to be the screenshots thread

You're right!

http://lunaran.com/pics/lunsp2/lunsp2_0019.jpg 

 

That looks more moldy than my 92 year old grandmother, and I like it! 

to people complaining about actual discussion taking place on this forum for a change: Calm down. 

Bring back the forge screenshot! 

use rubicon monsters, they are fairly nonthreatening when spawned alone in a cube room :)