Than - the wizard waterfall cabin map sounds really cool too. I love cool little polished SP's crafted out of cool little polished DMs. 

czg, don't make me come to Swewaylandia to pester you. 

Yeah, I played that secret czg-map, and even though it had no monsters in it yet, it's already my favorite quake map ever! (seriously, it rocks)

I suggest you all poke him with sharp sticks in his various fatmeats (=his whole body), and show him pictures of tortured kittens until he finishes it. 

Never finishing it now! </bal> 

Please don't finish that map ever if it means we can have rpg come over here! 

finish the map czg...</pester> 

So I went to EAA airventure today with my little bro, theres some pics and a couple F-22 flyby video clips - aaaaaaawesome:

http://www.phaitaccompli.com/crap/eaa2006/ 

hey CZG I will send you some russian cheese if you do it! and dont care about fitz. 

fatmeats

... lol


than, is there any way you can retrieve episodes of Silent Library and deliver them to us? namely, me? 

where your tax dollar goes, half of the world's defence budget is used in USA.

Louder than thunder, them planes. Man has some power with technology, makes you think. 

I played hrimfaxi & drew's Egypt the other day, and am too bored to look up the thread. It was cool in many ways.

It just sucked that I had 20 fps in it in many places, somewhat unnecessarily I think. r_speeds about 3500. And when ne_marb was recently mentioned in another thread here, it's a great map too but has some serious fps problems. (It isn't even that open but the rooms can see into each other!.)

Please try to visblock, at least rudimentarily. Make that hallway between big rooms L-shaped or something. It's a good practice. It's quake too, the engine and gameplay were neither meant for open maps. r_showtris 1 is such an easy tool in fitzquake that one can check visblocking quickly. And it lowers vis time a lot too!

Thank you. 

 

i'm too bored to look up the thread.

why should maps still be restrained in terms of size/r_speeds when most people have the proper hardware to run them smoothly. what is acceptable today? i'm not sure...
answers somewhere. 

i think with my last maps, i tried to keep stuff under 5k. 

Do we really want to push the limits, or keep the old constraints and being stucked into 1996 ??
Come on, it is natural to evolve.. please do the same... doh ! 

What computer and engine did you get low fps in? Maybe some gfx card or engine settings can help you. 

if you still get low fps in Quake these days, even with those r_speeds, you need to upgrade mate! :) 

I never go below 77 fps in quakeworld. I have a p3 500 with geforce4 mx. Sure, I accept some lag in big maps. But it just sucks when it's there for no good reason.

Well, whatever, maybe someone can make you a d3->quake map converter that turns the bumpmaps into bsp details and you can vis it for a year on a beowulf cluster and release to the awe-gaping community. R speeds 100k.

The quake engine was not meant for big detailed areas. The long vis times are one clear indication of that. Another is the gameplay. Q1 doesn't have detail brushes and whatnot. I really shouldn't need to explain this. Doing big detailed areas in quake 1 is like milking a horse. It's not meant to be that way.

There's a balance in going "beyond 1996". Go to 2001 or so in r_speeds. If you want to go further, use other engines and map formats?

Why even vis your maps then JPL, if it takes weeks, if you don't care about performance? Castle of dark ages was unplayable for me, but the spacebase map was good and I liked it.

This is of course all my layman opinion.
Please, think of the computing cycles. 

Why even vis your maps then JPL, if it takes weeks, if you don't care about performance?

Why ? Because it is more than unplayable even with a high performance PC.. Only aguirRe's engine would have been able to play unvised CDA...

Actually, my target was (and is always) FitzQuake: it must support the level without warnings/errors, and it is not a question of PC performance only IMHO...

I doubt many of us are still playing with WinQuake... or even original Quake engine... though...

Anyway, I think "old PC" and "old engine" have to be "archived"... and please let the humanity evolve to higher performance materials.... ;P 

Darkplaces and FTE can load q3 maps which should have less problems with size, and vis really fast afaik. Probably works with better fps too. Although the support is probably buggy as hell, but that will never be remedied if nobody starts using the features.
And some shader things are not there. 

My old PII with crappier specs than that loaded and played CZG97 and Necros' maps without any refresh rate problems.

As for what mappers should be doing that isn't really worth discussing because limitations in size also effect decisions in design, and that is unacceptable.

I'm looking forward to the day when the tools allow us to build big festering Quake cities. 

A future generation will put CZG on ice in a hightech, Illumanati subbasement and force him to produce maps with just his mind. 

If a machine was built to create structures based solely on czg's thought processes, all we'd get would be lots of kittens and giant willies. 

"limitations in size also effect decisions in design, and that is unacceptable."

So design should never be limited by the engine? You're mapping for the wrong game, mate. 

So design should never be limited by the engine?

That is a bit of a dodge on your part because you are advocating limiting map design to the requirements of outdated machinary, not what is possible given engine design and current hardware.

Binary partitions are not an effecient means of rendering terrain scaled areas but if someone wants to build an octree based renderer that processes bsp maps no one is stopping them, and as Carmack has stated the means of rendering is becoming irrelevant as hardware advances are being made.

You're mapping for the wrong game, mate.

I know of noone who shares your opinion of keeping maps and tech at 1997 among fellow Quake fetishist. It is bit of a puzzle to me where your mindset is coming from (years of living under Communism, maybe?). If I became destitute and could not afford to keep up beyond the 2006 mapping scene in the upcoming years, I would not expect mappers and programmers to keep churning out product to please me.

In fact, in 2002, I did not have a system that could play UT 2003, it was a bit of a pisser but that was their decision to develop as they pleased (though I did tell Wolf Marshall the Unreal 2 sucked and he wrote back that Epic did not develop it).

The design of Quake was modular from the beginning, and the code was released by Id to encourage further development as an extension of that modularity, so who is really out of sync here?