That Argh Feeling While Mapping
#10355 posted by madfox on 2010/10/12 03:30:07
I oftenly came to the disturbing error of leaks in my map on places that formerly compiled right.
I understand the annoying frustration it gives because mostly the map was right and the compiler gives an unsportive answer.
It took me a lot of maps before I got loos of the boxform while compiling, and always this was caused by the leak error.
Now I know there is no sport in it, it's just so precious adding poly's and making sure that all that's outside the hull must be placed excact on grid.
First I thought forcing on grid on 1 size grid would help, but this works only in boxes and makes the surface looks sloppy.
I think it is just the fault of thinking that the outside of the poly is on grid, while the middle of the poly counts and has to be integer.
The best solution is stop with the leaking map and begin with the one that was good.
If something goes wrong with brushes later on, forcing on grid can help, or adding a sealing brush to the leak pointed ones.
#10356 posted by RaverX on 2010/10/12 03:37:26
It works !!!
MadFox, you're right, I make a lot of "snapshots" of my map (I backup often and I keep old maps). Now I just added the walls one by one in the new map, then deleted the old walls one by one - it didn't worked first, then I decided to resize the old walls (moving them inside the old walls) - it worked. Then I tried to delete them again - it still worked, strange, but in the end it's ok.
Now I can go to sleep happy (it's 4:36 AM here) and tommorow I have to be at work at 8:00 AM and I have a very busy day, but who cares ... my map is ok again :)
Ijed
#10357 posted by SleepwalkR on 2010/10/12 07:23:54
It seems surprising to me that a brush intersection that creates an off-grid point would leak the map. Since when does bsp care about the grid? bsp files contain float coordinates, so it should not be a problem.
#10358 posted by necros on 2010/10/12 07:36:30
it has to do with hull expansion. if a brush intersection causes a problem in hull0, when the collision hulls are created, that minor problem is sometimes magnified such that it basically just gives up on the area, creating those 'holes' where you just fall, seemingly, right out of the map.
aguirre's bsp is pretty good at fixing problems, but some still slip by. other compilers are even touchier.
#10359 posted by Spirit on 2010/10/12 07:45:48
Do NOT use the Digger. It is the QuArK equivalent of carving. Do not use it. You will summon everything that sucks about mapping.
RaverX... And All...
#10360 posted by JPL on 2010/10/12 08:24:26
Well, QuArK is a fantastic straight forward editor, very easy to handle... but it suffers of a fucking bad behavior regarding its floating point coordinates capabilities: this makes sometimes the brushes to be off-grid.
The only way to avoid this off-grid corrdinates to be very careful when you move your faces / vertex, and even when positioning the textures on faces.
If you want to correct any leaks or "hole in maps" you have to read this first (The aguirR'es Mapping Holy Bible) http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/tooltips.txt that will give some very good procedure to solve 99% of your leakage problems.
However, for the remaining 1%, you can still open the .map file generated by QuArK after QBSP process, and look for the floating coordinates: that will give you an indication where are the corrupted brushes, and you'll be able to either replace it, or force it to grid with the editor.
In anyway it is long, it is painful, but it is worth doing it :)
Digger
#10361 posted by RaverX on 2010/10/12 08:57:44
Spirit, it'a too late for "don't use digger" (for my current map ) - I have tons of diggers there.
But let's say that in the future I will stay away from digger - how can I replace that ? How can I make holes in a brush without using diggers ?
RaverX
#10362 posted by JPL on 2010/10/12 09:52:10
How can I make holes in a brush without using diggers ?
Easy: you have to make it manually.
Example of a tunnel:
- Bad: you can use two "cubes", inserts a "digger cube" in a "solid cube"...
- Good: you can make it manually with 4 cubes, without digger, just making the hole a real hole with brushes
Dunno if it is clear :P
#10363 posted by Spirit on 2010/10/12 09:56:14
For clean mapping you place each brush by hand. A cube room consists of 6 brushes.
Real Digger
#10364 posted by RaverX on 2010/10/12 11:50:59
JPG, it's very clear, that's how I do the rooms, tunnels and everything. But I was talking about "real diggers" : imagine that you have a pillar and you want to puch a lot of holes into it.
It's very easy to make a "long" cube, then dig a pyramid in it and multiply that digger.
How do you do that without diggers ? (I know it can be done, but it's hell)
Sorry
#10365 posted by RaverX on 2010/10/12 11:58:44
Sorry - JPL (not JPG) :)
Something like this : http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4003/holes.png
Imagine that in 3D with a lot more holes (and not only on a column, but with more rows)
I Would Make It 1 Brush At A Time
#10366 posted by RickyT33 on 2010/10/12 12:04:39
Or make one "section" as a brush, then copy and paste it. This way you have absolute control over what you make. The computer cant screw anything up for you.
I Dunno If It's Helpful
but your pillar sounds kind of like something I've been fiddling with:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5668/zqftest03pillar.jpg
making the whole thing out of chunks that fit to the grid
Make Stuff
#10368 posted by ijed on 2010/10/12 12:49:04
A brush at a time is always better. The automatic carving tools just aren't very good. If they were then mapping would be semi-automated, since knowing where to cut stuff needs a good understanding of good build quality that the editor itself doesn't have.
Not that vertex editing and clipping tools aren't good. Like Ricky says, just don't trust the machine to do anything remotely clever.
Use Ctrl+B
#10369 posted by meTch on 2010/10/12 15:39:15
But dont use it too much it turns everything to shit when you do.
#10370 posted by necros on 2010/10/12 18:40:01
just don't trust the machine to do anything remotely clever.
oh god, THIS.
carving a square hole into a square brush, you'd think it could at least split the resulting polygons in a symmetrical way.
2/3 point clipping is pretty much a replacement for carving, honestly, because the only times you end up being able to use carving is to flat out remove bits of a brush.
Who's Got
#10371 posted by ijed on 2010/10/13 14:05:05
The WC Adapter texture conversion utility working on windows 7?
I got it working ok on Vista 'run as administrator' but the same doesn't work on 7, it just throws the most enlightening error message ever 'no log exists'.
I could convert the textures elsewhere and pass them over but its a pain in the balls and bad practice.
Icky Fleshy Textures
Can anyone recommend a wad with some nice flesh textures in it?
Ogro
#10373 posted by ijed on 2010/10/16 18:20:48
cheers, looks like a fun set :)
#10375 posted by necros on 2010/10/16 20:45:11
zerstorer also, and of course doom :)
Yeah
#10376 posted by ijed on 2010/10/16 21:34:05
I tried a few times to make something out of the organic room tex' but couldn't put anything together that worked. I mean the ones that have the door included.
#10377 posted by necros on 2010/10/17 03:22:05
i'm not a fan of ogro textures because they are way too dark. you basically miss out on cool shadowing because the textures are nearly black to begin with.
the textures are very cool, but just don't allow lighting to look good on them.
DP Recorded Demo Does Not Play Well On FitzQuake
#10378 posted by JPL on 2010/10/17 10:17:55
Spirit recorded a demo using DP of my latest map last week, but it does not play at all on FitzQuake..
I really would like to avoid DP install on lmy computer, so is there any converting tool/method/whatever that would allow to play the demo on FitzQuake ?
Thanks a lot in advance...
Still No.
#10379 posted by Spirit on 2010/10/17 12:08:25
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