The AD maps I've played are longer than most episodes I've played though. 

seconded 

I actually thought some of the AD maps were too big. I would get tired of playing, save and come back the next day. I think swampy took 4 days, off and on. 

The current trend is to have larger and larger levels with more entities, more enemies, more secrets, more bigger everything. Hence the protocol 999 and engines with super ultra mega extended limits.

I for one have been stuck making 3 maps for years that just keep getting bigger and never seem to end. I remember when I couldn't even compile one until bsp2 support was around. And then AD came out and I just HAD to change mods it was too good.

Really I think we will see a trend back to smaller bite sized maps in the future. Limitations back in the day made this the omly option, but I can see it as a way of increasing the number of releases to the benefit of players as well as allowing mappers to truly polish their small map into a mapsterpiece. 

First time you say something I agree with 

You should maybe focus on one map to make faster progress?

I think we will see a trend back to smaller bite sized maps in the future.
This is already the case with jam maps.

On an unrelated note, I've just stumbled upon post #912 by Rick from last month. The LG is a Yithian weapon, so it is indeed very quakey. 

Yeah, I don't really care about narrative progression in custom Quake maps, but a thematic progression and some sort of gameplay evolution (even if just gradually introducing weapons) across multiple maps is good stuff. Especially if the maps are not super-gigantic, it's a nice regular sense of progress/completion/cleanup to finish one map, leave it behind you, and go to the next.

Howwwwwever I realize that level of inter-map coordination makes it even harder than it already is to put together a package like AD, especially when multiple contributors are involved.

Anyway, yeah, the "episode" ambition does seem to be rarer now in favor of single megamaps. But it might be cool for the wheel to eventually turn back in the other direction. This discussion kind of reminds me of the ECHELON megawad for Doom that was just released, where the author really kept a lid on the scope of the individual maps. 

ECHELON megawad
It's been a while since I haven't followed Doom news, except for The Tei-Tenga Incident. I'll need to check it out, thanks for the heads-up. 

I'll just skulk back into the shadows I guess...
You can post as much as you like, but you have to be aware you are part of the MOD team and what you say will have more impact because you should be aware of what is going on. If you plan to talk about the MOD, just try to be as factual as possible.

Not requesting, pitching an idea
There is never a shortage of ideas, but there is certainly a shortage of people willing to turn ideas into reality. My comment to you was certainly sarcastic and wrong. I know its not just a simple case of model+code, there are sounds, particles, gibs, gameplay balancing and often new functions to cope with new behaviour. Its certainly cool to hear about new ideas, but there is a fine line between small feature request and crazy amount of work involved. 

So, is there any sort of ETA on 1.5 or is it "when it's done"? Not to rush you in any way, mind you, just so we have an idea of when to expect it. 

By my count Sock created 156/249 of the models which means he created 62% of the models in AD
AD is mostly a large dump of all the assets I have created over the years for Quake. Some of them are certainly not my best quality, but over time they have got better.

Its pretty cool you have worked out the percentages of models used in the MOD. I do know the history of every model, but I did not realize the overall quanity involved. It certainly helps to counter the comments I often get that somehow AD is mostly ripping off "other" people / mod / game assets, when the overall borrowed content is lower than most people realize.

We need to start aggressively contributing models until we can perform a hostile takeover of the mod. Sock will rue the day he made AD publicly traded...

AD 1.42 had 285 models
AD 1.5 has 344 models

It looks like the hostile takeover might have to pick up the pace if it wants to catch up with my model output! :D 

AD 1.42 had 285 models
AD 1.5 has 344 models

That is exciting. 

A thought for Sock: The QuakeC extensions check is only for what language extensions a server has. That's why they are QuakeC extensions. In single player, that's the same thing as the server.

But it sounds like you are doing coop too.

Remember, a regular Quakespasm client and a DarkPlaces client could be connect to a Quakespasm Spiked server.

Doing checkextension("DP_TE_PARTICLERAIN") tells doesn't tell you anything about a client.

Send some WriteByte wizardry to regular Quakespasm client and it'll crash out? Quakespasm Spiked R25 have new extension that uses WriteByte (that DarkPlaces doesn't have and R24 doesn't have) and DarkPlaces or Quake Spiked R24 as client to R25 server gets unexpected message and crashes out after 5 minutes because explosion effect sends unexpected bytes?

/Please let me be wrong and that I haven't found the achilles heal of the QuakeC extension system where even a server never knows what clients will work --- it just needs to run the progs and maybe the client crashes out eventually or maybe it doesn't. Hope to hear "Baker is completely wrong because ..." as next Spike post ... 

(I mean to post that in Quakespasm Spiked thread. Grrrrr ....) 

The maps are great, yes. Fantastic even. But they owe some of their qualities to this mod and its features. The greatness of the the entire package lies in how the maps and the mod mesh together.
I still believe that when the maps and the mod features are combined, that is what makes the experience special. Some maps in AD are certainly better than others, but they all heavily rely on AD features. There is also a third factor that many people outside the mod don't realize, the relentless drive for quality! I certainly hassled, pestered and pushed everyone to be aware of consistent visuals, good details and constant testing.

That's not to say there is no flaws or faults in AD maps because there certainly is, just that constantly testing is a good trait to adopt when creating community content. 

I actually thought some of the AD maps were too big. I would get tired of playing, save and come back the next day
I have been saying this in private for a long time. I spoke to ijed about this when he was developing RRP and mfx when he was developing swampy. I do think there is something nice about a map finish screen for breaking the experience down into manageable chunks of time. Quake gameplay can blur into one long killing spree at times and the final map screen is a good natural break.

I also understand why large maps exist because getting lost in a large world is a very cool experience and if done right can be very rewarding for the player. With all the extended limits available it is just so much easier to get carried away and just keep creating more and more.

There is no easy answer to this and there will always be a divide in the community about what should be the right amount of map content. Probably the number one concern that a mapper should be aware of when creating episode/large maps is ...

The larger content, the more testing that will be required! :P 

This discussion kind of reminds me of the ECHELON megawad for Doom that was just released, where the author really kept a lid on the scope of the individual maps
I did consider making all the AD maps into one large episode, but you have to understand that mappers are like herding cats! Forcing community mappers to keep to one direction is never an easy thing to do and certainly has issues with motivation.

In the end I think the diverse creativity of the AD maps is cool, every map has its own unique vibe and they are all feel like a different book in a grand library. Each map is a good short story with different environments, personal details and can be completed however you like.

I don't understand why everything has to be a linear structure, when the player can finally decide how they want to experience the game. Quake has always been a diverse set of worlds, do we really need to force episodic structures on everything we create for Quake? 

So, is there any sort of ETA on 1.5 or is it "when it's done"?
There is too many loose ends with AD 1.5 before it can be released. I would love to give a fixed date, but it is not possible at the moment.

If you want a weekly fix of what progress is happening with the MOD, keep an eye on the twitter feeds of the team as that is where the eye candy is posted. Otherwise its just, wait and see ... 

I don't understand why everything has to be a linear structure, when the player can finally decide how they want to experience the game.

Not everything. The thing is: everything became the opposite lately. It's also not exactly about linearity. You can have a hub of 10 maps you can play in any order, and still make it feel like a single journey.

And no, it's not calling the recent works lazy crap or anything like that. The focus might have been shifted, but the quality is undeniable. Though something tells me I can get away with more because I'm not Mugwump. 

An episode would be a nice thing to try to do in the future, and would limit lengths single maps can be anyway since you'd need someone specified as the lead designer to say "X item is on the main path of Y level, with Z in a secret" etc type decisions to pace out the episode. If you can't collect every single item in Quake in a single map, giant maps become very boring.

Likely as a team you would make the decision "levels should take on average 10 minutes to complete" as a rough baseline of pacing anyway. And perhaps even need some deadlines for mappers so everyone can discuss and revise together on a scheduled pace.

As a future project with an understanding of "no new mod features" to make it more manageable, maybe it would be a fun project to do and expand on AD. 

no new mod features
Haha. Ya. Right. 

I believe it was about working with features already present in AD, instead of still working on the mod as the mapping goes. 

Probably the number one concern that a mapper should be aware of when creating episode/large maps is ...

The larger content, the more testing that will be required! :P

Yep, still trying to adjust to that realization. I was going for a small map but I myself wasn't satisfied with the amount of content so now it has grown into a medium sized map and I hope to keep it there.

The tough thing is any new area you create in a map also requires detailing, textures, lighting, gameplay/logic elements, testing.

That's a hefty workload due to having a "good idea" for an additional area!

I can't fathom what the AD mappers are dealing with! 

oh.

Yeah, I'm not sure that criticising AD for "lack of narrative" or "episodic content" is really warranted or even makes any bloody sense considering the size of the maps and the modular, open structure of the entire project.

Makes for good drama though. 

I think the idea was thrown about but it didn't really catch