|Posted by hexcalk on 2016/12/11 09:04:25|
|Hi everyone, I am hexcalk, and this is my first released map: Peripheral Fundament (PF/hc0), an idbase map with some non-idbase parts (wizard/metal/medieval). It is a difficult level featuring high numbers of monsters. In there, nonlinearity comes into play for a majority of the area, and ammo and health supplies are placed mostly in walls and corners. Sometimes (especially in Hard/Nightmare), the player feels the optional want to cause infighting to avoid dying. The further you get into the base, the more likely you must be careful. That is a peripheral fundament.
Download (4mb, of which 3mb is a .tga screenshot): http://www.quaketastic.com/files/single_player/maps/hc0.zip
But nonetheless this map has been good (at least somewhat), and Quake is great. A downloadable fix/patch to this map just can happen whenever possible.
If a map leaks, QBSP generates a .pts file. When placed in the maps directory alongside the bsp, you can use the pointfile console command to show a dotted line that leads to the leak, or at least helps in indentifying the area.
Type developer 1 in the console before loading the level to warning messages if monsters are stuck in walls or items fall out. All monsters and items need some space to adjacent geometry (at least 4 units) - their bounding boxes, that is (those are larger than the actual model). This is not an engine bug, but an error in the map.
Thanks Again Negke.
Cool 'pointfile' and 'developer 1' tips negke. ;)
I am good at playing Quake at Easy and Normal. Hard is acceptable.
The leak is beyond those three textures, one part of it being at where the cells at the supply near the silver key are and apparently half of the lights are among the other parts of it. I am working on a fix to the map.
I won't go into the technical issues, but just mention some gameplay problems which can be easily solved in your next map...
Played on normal, yet you dished out about 10x as much ammo as I needed. The map is packed to the brim with weapons, health and ammo pickups, but I just grabbed the rocket fairly early on and gibbed everything in my way. Didn't use nails once, yet nail pickups were littered everywhere.
No real structure to the progression. This is mainly because I found:
All weapons are handed out in quick succession meaning no real ramping up of combat difficulty.
The blue key is found way before you even see the blue door.
The gold key is placed in plain sight right next to the gold door, which is rather odd.
Keys need to be placed in way where you see the locked door first, and then later in the level you find the key and loop around back to the door (keyword "loop" - don't make the player backtrack!)
The map exit is unmarked and not in a position that seems like a natural endpoint to the level. I was just walking around and brushed up against what I thought was a blue sky-textured window and the level ended, much to my surprise, even though there was obviously a whole load of monsters and stuff below me which I hadn't even explored yet.
This is clearly a first map, and a test map at that. The room with all of the liquid textures is a clear sign of that. Reminds me of my first map except I didn't release it.
It is nice to see you play with curves and some interconnection and also unessential areas (SNG, TB, Grenade Launcher) and is shows promise of what you could create in the future.
However it would be wise to submit a beta on the Screenshots and Betas thread to obtain some constructive criticism and assistance on the bad spots of the map.
Skill 2, 1/2 secrets:
Also to find the empty textures in a TB map, you can open the .map file in a text editor and search for "__TB_empty". Then you can just replace the phrase with another texture...like tech04_6.
Good luck with your future mapping endeavors!
To Kinn: Yes, you're exactly right.
To Bloughsburgh: Good luck indeed.
So this map is not very good. In fact, it's pretty bad. Theme and visuals are all over the place, no sense of progression either layout- or gameplay-wise, pointless rooms that lead to nowhere etc. With that said, I did somewhat enjoy it in a so-bad-it's-good kinda way. It's just so satisfying to blast away ridiculous clusters of enemies with rockets or grenades.
If you're gonna keep on mapping I'd advise you to be more conscious of progression and a coherent theme - a map doesn't necessarily have to be as detailed and grand as many of the newer releases as long as it plays well and looks polished enough. Also get someone to playtest your maps before releasing.
It Was Fun
I played it. It was fun.
It was also probably just like everybody else's first map in that it had too much of everything: textures, ammo, monsters, areas of no real purpose, etc. But it was still fun.
My suggestion is... don't worry about 'fixing' this map. Just move on to your next map and try to implement some of the improvement suggestions noted here.
This should include paying attention to the technical requirements e.g. run a full vis, and definitely sort out the items falling out of the level.
Mapping is fun, playing Quake is fun. The more you map, the better you'll get, and the more we will enjoy your maps.
Alright, I give up fixing this map. I agree, it was fun, mapping is fun, playing Quake is fun.
No Need To Be So Hard On Yourself, Pal.
We all had to start somewhere in terms of mapping. Just follow the advice you were given in this thread and practice making a better map.
Okay, I have no problem following the advice in the thread, since I like advice. Thanks everyone for it.
So much fuss over this map so i had to play it.
The map was buggy and ugly 0/10. but the action was actually fun :D
I have yet to release my first map. I have a test map where I test all the functions and features i want to add to my real map, and once i have those figured out i will add them to my real map. I was building my first map for 2 weeks and gave up on it because of extreme vising times. (i didnt realize i had to make details into func_detail entities).
now im making my second map which is on its way to be released.
Good luck on your next project, make more of an effort on your maps, its worth it!
After 6 months of intense work, I'm still working on a map of a single squared room, without details/doors/sky, and a single dog standing in the middle.
When I play it in QS, I kill the dog and need to figure out where should be the exit teleporter. Oh well, ...
"I was building my first map for 2 weeks and gave up on it because of extreme vising times",
I suspect several mappers here would find that quite a funny statement. Many of the maps released here took months and sometimes years to see the light of day. And as for vis times, my last map took 280 hours, and I don't have the record here for vis times!
Just food for thought: once the map starts to grow, the full vis time will grow. If you do start to see extended times and you have done all the requisite optimising, vis it overnight. Most of us sleep for several hours a night; an ideal period for full vising. (I think I went on holiday!)
(i didnt realize i had to make details into func_detail entities)
Well you don't HAVE to use func_details, although this seems to be the modern methodology. Again, my last map did not have any - and yes, hence some of the extended vis time.
Anyway, keep mapping AND releasing them.
Mapping Is Tough But Addictive
hexcalk Func_Msgboard is a great place to learn but a VERY tough crowd here. I want to give you a couple simple tips that will help you improve your mapping skills from an aesthetic perspective.
1. as you are a beginner, use the original id maps for reference. For my current map I took about 30 screenshots of E1M3. These are shots of room layout, architecture and all the little details that make a map immersive and.... well Quake-like. I combined these screenshots into a PDF that I refer to often for inspiration and guidance.
2. test - test - test - don't make another map until you have made about a dozen or more test maps. It's good practive for building things and you can experiment with architecture, lighting, traps, puzzles and get comfortable with your editor.
3. examine levels you admire and "borrow" from those. i.e. I really admire socks's level Fallen from Grace. I will never be the mapper sock is but I do like some of the little design elements like how the woodwork is mixed with stone. So you'll see those touches in my map eventually. Look at levels you love and get inspired!
4. ask questions... this is a great community. I feel like an idiot most of the time reading these posts but I have learned a lot here.
5. map for you and no one else - don't try and impress anyone here - that's a fool's errand.
Like the others said, don't get discouraged. Just keep making small and simple maps exploring the fundamentals of level design, the magnum opuses will come soon enough.
Bear in mind by far the most important thing is to get layout and gameplay nailed, before you start worrying about awesome lighting, or trying to make the next "every-brick-is-a-brush" AD-esque facemelter.
Great advice there.
Id maps, especially E1-E3, are a great place to start. Despite how old and superseded they are, the fundamentals of theme, 3D layout, details, setpieces, gameplay, ambushes etc are still something to heed.
Also as Kinn said, don't try to be the next AD-beating thing (the same applies to negke who should know better). A good little map with a solid theme, some cool designs and fun, frantic gameplay IS still good enough. We all enjoyed the recent retrojam5 and Gotshun's lost levels cos they were just good.
From #25 Onward
This is all cool advice. Thanks everyone.
Listen To Them
Hey Hexcalk. Very nice on your first map. These guys know what there talking about, so listen to them.
With their knowledge and experience they will lead you in the right direction.
Mapping is an addiction and a good one to get hooked on. So read all the comments these guys gave you and reread them to better understand and memorize what they say.
And a big thank you to Shambler for the compliment.
Again....good first map!!!
Hope to see more!
Everton Has Their Own Style.
Longer you experiment, closer you're finding your own style. I knew that I was more Into dream-like horror themes, and many maps people suggested me to learn form wasn't really my thing. Also map doesn't need to be in a large scale, the way it is created matters only, don't get too blind of these super large/spacious maps. You Will find your own way of learning, whether it is some useful books, talking about level with someone personally in rl etc.
Everyone* (stupid Phone)
Not much to add that the others haven't already said, except this: you have animated textures in your map (+0slipbot and +0sliptop) but for them to animate, you have to include the other frames (+1, +2, etc...) in the map. Just build a brush somewhere outside of the main geometry (in the void) and put the extra frames on it.
Also, be more mindful of which uses suit particular textures, don't just put them on your brushes arbitrarily. For example, a mess of electric wires (tech01_5) as main texture for ceilings looks bad and makes no sense: it's better used sparingly in maintenance/computer areas.
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