Yeah they jump around randomly. Deal with it. That's where your skill comes in. If it's at a distance, get your shotgun out and make use of the point-and-click functionality of your mouse.

If it's jumping into your face, time to eat those fucking crisps.*

I'm guessing the people who insist spawn combat is more about luck than skill are probably the same people that "suck" and are possibly also "lame".

* ("eat those fucking crisps" is what my rugby coach used to yell at us when he wanted us to run really fast. Apparently he saw the act of alternately raising one's hands during the running motion as vaguely reminiscent of someone eating potato-based snack products.) 

A creature that moves randomly without indication of what it's about to do is, inherently, a luck based opponent. 

http://i.imgur.com/gMqZwOZ.jpg 

Warren's REKage of Kinn's so-called argument....looks like 100% skill to me. Or is it 100% common sense? One of the two anyway. 

It's not random. Difficult to predict, but it always comes after you. The constant bouncing goes all over but you can learn pretty much what it's going to do in a given situation.

Lowering the health and damage in RRP made them a lot more palatable without taking away the challenge and style of the monster.

Making them pause after each jump spoiled their erratic nature a bit though. 

Yes, dealing with a luck-based opponent requires skill to deal with the whatever that opponent throws at you (hitting you, exploding in face, etc). But what exactly that opponent throws at you in any given situation is not controllable by skill. 

"It's not random"

but...

"The constant bouncing goes all over"

"erratic nature"

...errrr?? Sounds random to me, homie.

Also if they weren't random and you could learn what they would do in a given situation, why would they need to be made more palatable? Surely if it's pure skill, then the health and damage is irrelevant as one can reliably use skill to outwit them?? 

Just because a monster moves randomly doesn't mean the outcome of a fight against it is like rolling a dice.

Years ago spawns used to give me trouble. Now they give me hardly any trouble, does that mean I'm becoming a luckier player?

Watching otp's demo of fifth's map - he must be a pretty lucky player - he didn't even die once! Would you say he's luckier than the average player?

Shit - is anyone here anyone here gonna agree with me that there's an element of player skill involved? 

Just because a monster is a luck-based opponent doesn't mean the outcome doesn't involve any skill.

Shit - is anyone here anyone here anyone here, errrr anyone at all going to point out the bleeding obvious that Kinn's non-argument is completely clouded by machismo and ego? 

I'm not budging on my position here. 

In case that sounded like I was taking the piss a bit....you're still lovely. Just wrong in this case. And maybe misinterpreting things a bit, I don't think anyone is saying there is no skill involved, nor that spawns are not a good monster / good fun entertainment / an essential part of any Quake map especially when placed in secrets. Just that there is some luck involved due to their random nature, and that in some - usually obvious circumstances - that can make a NON-100% skill-based encounter. 

erratic =! random

It's never going to fling itself away from you, for example.

How far it attempts to move with each jump is a fixed amount as well - if it bounces off a wall before it completes one is something that can be taken into account if you're precise enough.

Truly random would be it completely ignoring the player and just jumping about in any old direction and at random distances.

They have too much health and cause too much damage on bump in id1. A bomb enemy is supposed to take you by surprise when you forget it explodes. Not force you into destroying it because otherwise it will kill you extremely quickly with those 10 damage hits.

The health was just too high for my preference as well - bullet sponges are boring to fight IMO. I prefer more, and more dynamic fights. 

erratic

/ɪˈratɪk/

adjective: erratic

not even or regular in pattern or movement; unpredictable.

"her breathing was erratic"

synonyms:

unpredictable, inconsistent, changeable, variable, inconstant, uncertain, irregular



I'll take that instead of "truly random". 

 

You Brits and your wank fights. 

Are a proud institution.

Like morris dancing or scrapheap challenge. 

I dunno about erratic, they're certainly erotic though. 

I'm kind of with Shambler on these maps. Maybe I wasn't in the right mood when I played them.

Good to know I can make LunSP2 harder though! 

 

 

� for those who didn't understand me:

1) Try to learn from where the tarbabies come, and kill them before they jump. Dying on the first time is normal, because they'll still have the element of surprise until you figure out their spawnpoints.

2) Look for obstructions to block them. Their jump height is fixed! Low door entrances, low ceilings with girders, etc.

3) Go for higher places where they can't reach you.

4) If they're underwater, approach them from over the water, and vice versa.

Look, memorize, plan in advance.

As I do that, those maps are becoming a lot easier.

Was I being too vague in my previous comment about tarbabies? 

 

Dying on the first time is normal

Let's extend this to crushing ceilings and traps and stuff. Wham! Haha! Player didn't see THAT coming! It's okay, they can just reload. 

http://i.imgur.com/drmvu.jpg 

"oh my god it's a spawn!"

*player instantly gibs at the mere sight of it*