Enjoyed it, looks awesome, thought skill 2 lacked teeth though. I was only close to dying once because I was trying to kite around some voreballs and buggered it up :P
Found all the secrets, which for me is a miracle :)
Short but sweet, with some decent ambushes and good action. Kinda easy on skill3 (both combat and secrets), but flowed nicely nonetheless. Some really solid architecture throughout, I can appreciate good brushwork and there's plenty of it to be found here. Love the curves.
skill3, 80/80, 4/4, 20mins Demo
On a sidenote, been away from here for too long, haven't noticed there's been lots of great releases this year! Gonna have to play them all and post some demos. Christmas comes early!
Splendid map, Than!
I thought I wrenched some pipes, but this is a high stand.
Good shading and tex set, sometimes I had the idea being in beyond believe.
Died halfway on easy. poor me.
Thanks For Comments And Demos
I've checked out a few of the demos (czg highlighted a small bug... argh!) - they are always fun to watch. In retrospect I should perhaps have thinned out the death from above around the middle of the map, beefed up the end a bit more on hard, and made the secrets slightly more satisfying to get. There was probably a little too much health in the final area too (esp if you got the MH secret just before).
Spirit: Yeah, tell me about it. I hadn't noticed Sock had released ITS until I'd written the news post and uploaded the zip and shots. At that point I just thought "well, whatever, I guess it's a good day for playing Quake" :)
That's the second or third time I've done that. apsp1 came out on the same day as Nehahra I think, but I think many people were still using 56kbps modems back then, so they played apsp1 whilst waiting for Nehahra to download.
Drew: The curves are nothing really special - it's pretty easy to do that in Worldcraft, and probably easier in editors that support floating point coordinates. Aligning all the textures was a pain in the ass, but WC 1.6 has a nice texture application tool (no fit to face or workable texture lock though), so it wasn't all that bad. If you look at CZG's curve tutorial, you'll probably end up knowing everything you need: http://www.quaketerminus.com/hosted/happymaps/curv_tut.htm
I think czg made this back in his Worldcraft days.
onetruepurple: There were no spawns because I didn't find anywhere I wanted to put them and they were the wrong colour.
You really want to be sure you find EVERYTHING :)
Perhaps I'll have to add a special unmarked secret for hitting all the grates in my next map ;)
Thanks for the demo... I'll make the next one a bit more brutal on hard.
Fern + Onetruepurple
where did you feel there was combat missing? There were a few areas that were intentionally a little bit sparse because otherwise there wouldn't be any tension and it would just be one long (but probably still fun) grind.
The map is a thing of beauty, the way the curves all link around and no space seems to be wasted. Extremely well put together and it took me a while to see the basic DM layout it was based on. I wish you would venture into the realms of coloured lighting, it is sorely missed on the lower levels and I don't understand why you never alpha your water, it feels so odd.
The thing that rubbed me up the wrong way was the monster layout. Hiding spawns in water, tons of enemies all above the player and at one point I had enemies shoot at me from all directions. The final nail in the coffin was I open a door and right infront of me was a shambler and I had the GL/SSG and hardly any shells left. I decided it was time for god mode. The most memorable encounter for me was the demon and the exploding boxes, very cool setup, I like strategic combat situations.
It is extremely obvious that you love the architectural make over aspects of these remix maps and I know you can do amazing monster layouts (apsp1, apsp3) but this is the second DM remix I don't like. I am sure it is just me and my slow reflex's but I feel the monster layouts are just shoehorned into beautifully crafted map.
I've had that link sent to me more than once...
Just isn't the same.
Thanks though - I suppose I'll find my eureka moment eventually.
You Are Kind Of Right...
I do like making the structure and layout more than placing the monsters, and I still have a horrible tendency to place only very few key monsters during the initial layout building instead of really thinking through each combat as I build the geometry. I shall I have to do that more in the future, as it enabled me to make levels for stuff I've done at work very quickly and iterate much more quickly and with better results than the way I tend to make Quake maps.
I think that the middle of the map was a little bit stupid, with too many monsters above the player on normal and not enough strategy. It felt fun to me, and the testers didn't seem to have any real issues (aside from a couple with the shambler ambush, which I fixed), but I think I should have toned it down a bit and put in a few more strategically placed monsters and less spam from above.
I quite liked the spawn hidden just below the surface of the water to be honest. He's there to fuck the player up a bit at the beginning. The other spawn(s) in the pool are usually quite easy to kill, but if you let them start bouncing around a lot, you could be in for a beating.
The reason for not using wateralpha is that it allows players to shoot monsters with no chance of return fire from the monsters... unless I am doing something wrong and missing some compile option. Monsters can't see through water, so it breaks gameplay sometimes. I used wateralpha on dm3rmx though.
Coloured light is something few Quake mappers have used to good effect, but seeing what you have done in Shadows shows me that it can be used tastefully in Quake without breaking the feel of the game. However, since I started making the rmx maps without coloured lights, I am kind of against putting them in some of the later ones only. If I decide to release a rmx pack, I'll think about adding coloured light to all maps as well as modifying the gameplay so that they can be played consecutively.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments and crits.
Nice map, excelent remix, it really looks like DM5 and it's much better, I love the industrial feeling. Played on easy, killed 50/50, found all 4 secrets. I died twice, fiends, vores and shamblers on easy isn't exactly what I would expect on easy...
I love maps this size, perfect bite sized fun :D
Didn't find the last secret... but I found a "..."! I must discover it's mysteries!
Skill 2 - pretty much a perfect playing experience for me, as you'll see in the demo.
there were several areas where an ambush would have felt "right" but there were just gib fountains instead. at first I thought it was intentional but now I just think it was quoth breaking the map
you played with Quoth? It's an id1 map!
Sometimes quoth works fine with other maps, but I guess not here. Perhaps it has something to do with the point entity trigger_teleport hack I used for monster spawning? I never saw any telefragging going on when I was testing, otherwise I would have fixed it. I did have monsters become disabled (can see them, but they don't move and you can't kill them) a couple of times.
Will check out demos tonight.
and entertaining map, with great lighting!
Keep em coming Than.
"It's Raining Than, Hallelujah" (-- The Nether Girls)
This is the kind of map that should set an example. Small and sweet, solid construction and detail, yet short production time. I mean, once again, as opposed to the "bigger=better" notion that has been keeping the level per year number low for a long time.
I didn't mind the spam from above (yes, you need to look up for a change), except maybe more of the monsters should have had the ambush flag set or been visually impaired so as to keep the upper level populated for when the player gets there.
As for deathmatch: Quad and RA right next to each other looks like a great source of unbalance.
This is compact yet extremely stylish. Pretty good work, fun little map.
I failed to complete the simple task of making a demo. Great map, 4/4 64/64 in 17+ mins. Got lost after getting the gold key for about 5 minutes for some reason.
negke: I thought dm was supposed to have some imbalance? I didn't really play Q1 dm enough to know how to effectively do an imbalanced map I guess :/
Also, most of the enemies on the top levels have the ambush flag set I think.
Megazoid: A couple of the demos I watched had players get momentarily lost after the gold key. I thought this was impossible because the gold key switch is one of the first things you see in the map - perhaps the initial combat is distracting enough that memory of the gold key doesn't stick well? There were also a couple of people who seemed to get lost after pressing the overflow entrance switch - I should have made that opening a little more obvious by using the ratchet sound I used on the shambler door.
the overflow entrance
The problem was that it wasn't clear they were doors/grates to begin with, they are just dark corners, and the sign saying 'Overflow Entrance" doesn't really help, because for all the player knows, the entire map is 'the overflow'.
No. It's supposed to be balanced so that no player can easily dominate a map/match by controlling a single area. If all items (and routes) are evenly distributed, it comes down to playing skill rather than using an unfair advantage in the environment. Ideally, anyway. Otherwise it becomes more of a "king of the hill"-kind of scenario. The id maps aren't really perfect examples.
I Was Thinking It Might Work In Teamplay :)
I took dm3 as the example, which has HORRIBLE item distribution if you happen to spawn on the side with the super nailgun and ring. Also very poor connectivity since it is kind of divided into two halves, with the quad/ring/mh room as the centre. Hmm, maybe it was only popular because it was the largest default map?
With dm5rmx, there are plenty of entrances to the quad area, though not all of them are especially safe if there is someone in there waiting for you I guess :)
Well, nobody will ever play it in dm anyway, so it doesn't really matter so much at the end of the day I guess :(
I had stuck to my theory that balance is best in deathmatch design, and that theory fell a bit flat with this map. Too much balance eliminates ways that players can use the design against their enemies, which is the meat of the deathmatch metagame; without that you're just firing rockets.
sloppy speedrun: members.upc.nl/verorber/dm5rmx_116.dem
Unslopped A Little
close to 114 but had enough now:)