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Quoth - Part 2
Finally. Quoth Part 2, the base-oriented update.

http://kell.quaddicted.com

Note: the mapping tutorial is only half done. We've decided to release anyway, because it's taking too long, plus there are maps already finished that use this content and surely some more will follow.

Map sources for all the Quoth maps, including the previous pak0 maps, are downloadable from the tutorial page.

Have at it.

[edit: fixed URL]
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Bugger it all ...

Is the Quoth2 documentation going to be finished up anytime soon? It's been over 3 months since release. :) 
Quoth 2 Docs 
From what we've been told, it's actually reasonably complete. I've just been playing the "docs not done yet" card as an excuse for putting off the "make quoth2.def" task.

That and the fact that I don't have a Quoth 2 map in progress... :) 
Heh - 
It's not too bad really. You can get quite far from just common sense and the source files.

The breakables are pretty versatile in their uses, but if you look at the source for the breakable demo map, you can find the right settings

monster_pyro, monster_eliminator - just like enforcers

monster_scourge, monster_edie - I just used the same binding box size as the feind, right or wrong (my edie's havent been stuck in the wall so far)

the, er, flying bot which arent Bobs (cant remember the name) - spawnflags 1 = fires nails instead of lazers

ladders - didnt use this, used a clip-brush/func_illusionary ladder

I used the manual to make the entities required for rotating entities... 
 
Actually, the source files would work for me as well (since that's all DEF fils are - class headers copied from the QC source). Is the Quoth2 source available? 
Todo 
I'll make a list of what's not there, it's all pretty small things besides the command stuff.

The tutorial as it stands
http://kell.quaddicted.com/quoth/quoth_tutorial.html


NO DOCUMENTATION:
info_command_spawn (but covered in http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60173&start=99&end=99 )
info_command_server (but functionally just an info_command sent to server rather than client)
info_groupspawn
info_multispawn (these two are just renamings of func_multispawn and func_hordespawn respectively)
trigger_command_contact
info_trap
func_door_button

NOT UPDATED:
info_command
trigger_command
info_intermission
trigger_counter/trigger_once/trigger_mutliple (but the update is listed in coop configuration) 
Oh, And 
TOTALLY OMITTED:
func_train
path_corner

These two don't even have dummy entries in the tutorial but actually both have updates. Putting this in the thread mostly to remind myself... 
I Did 
A fgd, but can't remember what happened to it. I think I uploaded a copy for Distrans.

Chances are it got lost when the shub-hub was wiped. 
Ijed... 
...yes, and look what horrible evil came of it :)

Willem, I'll send mid morning tomorrow if you wish. 
Quoth 2-compatible QRP Textures 
I've converted the hi-res textures from the Quake Remodeling Project so they work with Quoth 2's combined ammo/health model.

Disclaimer:
I take no credit for these textures; they are the very same ones available from the QRP's bmodel pack. I've merely repackaged them to be Quoth 2 compatible. (Consequently, if you were never fond of the QRP textures, there's probably no reason to download this.)

Caveats:
- Since FitzQuake doesn't support external alias model textures (AFAIK), these won't work with it.
- Ricky's "Slave to a Machine" is currently the only map that uses the combined ammo/health model.

Comments welcome. See enclosed text file for full info.

Available from Shub-Hub (~15MB):
http://shub-hub.com/files/textures_retexture_project/quoth2_ammohealth.zip 
D E F 
Actually, the source files would work for me as well (since that's all DEF fils are - class headers copied from the QC source). Is the Quoth2 source available?

That being the case, having the source would make creating the .def file super easy. It would also mean the bounding box info and all that will be accurate, rather than guesswork.

Even if the source isn't going to be made available in full, could we get a list of all the entities copied from the source files? 
Quoth2 Enforcer Backpacks 
Is there a way to restore the original amount of cells Enforcers give in Quoth2? It wasn't a very good idea to do this globally as some maps actually rely on the 5 cells bonus (1 is ridiculously few). 
DEF Headers 
The def headers are only there if the coder adds them, they're essentially just comments as far as the compiler is concerned. So having the source would be of no help to you, sorry to say. The source is not released anywhere. 
 
Damn it. I guess I'll just wait then.

However, I would suggest that you'd be seeing more Quoth 2 maps/activity if we had some entity DEF files. 
Cells 
that was my suggestion because 5 is ridiculously many considering how weak enforcers are and how strong the LG is. You get 3 bonus cells for every enforcer you kill with the LG ffs. I thought it was impossible to really control the cells in dm3rmx and so asked for the cells to be reduced in Quoth.

Maybe you are right about it being not default, but are there any non-Quoth maps that rely on 5 cells per backpack? I found that less cells makes dm3rmx more fun and can still clear it on hard 100% kills. 
Distrans 
Sorry if I seemed overly negative before. To be honest I was wondering how many playtesters you had - thinking back all of the problems were stuff that you'd spot within five minutes of some Quake newb sat in front of the level.

AFAIK the fgd doesn't have the extended flags, since they go outside the worldcraft base set / limitation. Apparently they can be set manually somehow. 
Cells 
Indeed it makes sense in large base maps.

I wanted to have the LG as a kind of secret weapon that has to be used with consideration, and not put actual cell packs in. It wouldn't be a problem to work around this by adding a Quoth2 detector but I guess a few more cells in Quoth1 wouldn't hurt either. 
Willem 
If you use GtK 1.5, afaik, you can easily switch between custom content in Quake using the files that came with Quoth without making any new entities or the like. I could be wrong on that, but I seem to remember setting it up with little hassle. 
 
ToeTag will do that as well - but without source files with proper class headers, it can't. That information just isn't in the PAK files (AFAIK anyway). 
Some Of The Map Sources Are 
available. I stripped out the entity text for one of them and use it for reference. I haven't created a .def file for it as of yet since I can only guess at the spawnflag settings in a hit or miss kind of way without the source. 
What The Def 
I'll definitely volunteer to create a complete .def file if and when the full range of required info is made available. At the risk of stating the obvious, for each new entity we need to know:

- entity name
- description of entity
- bbox extents
- spawnflags
- keys (and the valid range of values)
- is it meant to be a point entity or a trigger/bmodel (not always obvious)
- anything else I forgot

I understand that a lot of this info is available, but unless I missed something, we don't have access to all of that stuff. (Correct me if I'm wrong, else, wake me up when it's ready). 
By The Way... 
I didn't mean to suggest that I'm ungrateful here - I appreciate the effort that has gone into Quoth/2, and I'm looking forward to making some SP maps with the new monsters and functionality. I just don't want to be fumbling around in the dark while I do it. :) 
 
Oh yeah, and just to chime in here myself. I love the work that went into Quoth2. You guys are at the 18 mile mark of a marathon. Just get some documentation out (at least a .DEF file) and we can get to work supporting your creation! 
Why Not 
Decompile the progs so you can put together a working .def whilst waiting for the approved version? 
 
Preach already said there aren't any comments in the class headers so where would the information come from? I'm not too keen on reading the source code (decompiled, even) and piecing together spawnflags. 
 
In other words, I already have a full time job. :) 
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