when we're still mapping for Quake 1? 

Speak for yourself :p

Actually, having said that I am tempted :) 

Good comes in an infinite amount of flavors and it is NOT a matter of preference, as so many seem to believe.

Hmm... I'm now going ignore everything else in that post and concentrate on this one single quote. Good is not a matter of preference, if one believes that Good is entirely objective, that there's some kind of giant sphere with the word "GOOD" on it out there, and that the sphere is the essence of good, and it does not depend on anything else but itself.

However, if we define Good to be entirely subjective, then Good is a matter of preference. Don't you just hate me now? 

I hate you. 

you create a distinction between objective and subjective definitions of 'good.' But you fail to make a more important distinction between "subjective to a person" and "subjective to a large group of people." 

But it didn't. I don't even know what the conversation is about. 

I hate you.

My work here is done. 

I hate you. But that's because I hate myself. And clowns. You'd better not be a sad clown.

I have seen the pretty sphere of good. I keep in the fishbowl in my apartment. I know I shouldn't, but every day or so I take a little out to use on myself. Maybe one day there won't be any left... 

That's where it went. Look Wazat, if you could see yourself free to letting that little bundle out of the bowl the world would be very grateful. 

No need for an apo...just me gearing up for the new semester :)

/me ignores RPG 

drug culture slang is so confusing. 

I don't know who mentioned it (Fatty maybe?) but they said Quake is good because it's fun. This is true.

Quake is fun because it has a brooding, underworld theme. It just feels like you're underground in some land that developed deep below the earth. The colors are drab and the monsters are stupid beasts.

I think that where Quake 2 and alot of other games went somewhat wrong was the desire to make the technology shine.

For example, right as you're hurdled into Q2, your space pod has crashed into a pseudo-realistic base. Planes are humming over head and human-looking soldiers are shooting at you with very realistic and very weak guns.

With the advent of the graphics card, I think alot of game developers did try to recreate the Quake feel except with shiny new technology.

The problem is that they forgot that what made Quake shine was its inability to dazzle. The game stands as a monument to the perfect mix of technology and imagination. There is enough technology to immerse, but it is not real enough to make us lose our imagination. ;) 

Blitz, maybe you should reread what I said in 'Suggestions' Post #31.

Quake 2 is not bad. 

...Quake was shining with technology. Or don't you remember? Truely 3D environments with models and not sprites was unheard of for FPS when Quake was released.

Quake was shiny new technology. The BSP engine.

And how does something being more "real" or vivid cause imagination to dwindle? I feel that it is quite the opposite. 

Truely 3D environments with models and not sprites was unheard of for FPS when Quake was released.

That was the stun point for me: Being able to look down on a box of ammo and then realising "Hey! That's the top of the box! It actually has a top! THIS PLACE IS TRUE 3D MAN!!"

Yep, that was my lemon-around-gold-brick time. 

quake was just evile
What other game made you jump when a monster suddenly appeared ? Was there anything after the quake that immersed you into nightmareish bloody raw meat outworld ?

Having played e1 the first time I really felt the need to go outside to breathe a fresh air and to check if sun is still shining, just to keep me content. Quake was a damn thriller of a game.
And years later it still was superior to most of the modern games. Thats why I came back to quake in 99 .

What other sp shooter can compare to quake`s atmosphere (and to me it includes all - sounds, music, lighting, world, all art and design) and has really great gamplay ? (except Doom, tho half doom2 maps suck)
Maybe some avp1/2 missions. RTCW zombie dungeons were cool and rather spooky (good sounds and light) but they dint come close to quake.

True quake was frist engine of its kind (full 3d, dynamic lightmaps, polygonal models etc) but it was THE Game. 

indeed. 

"Quake is fun because it has a brooding, underworld theme"

fun = theme (graphics)? 

What other game made you jump when a monster suddenly appeared?

Doom, Doom II, System Shock, System Shock II, Alien vs. Predator, Alien vs. Predator II, some (sadly only some) parts of Half-Life etc. Hell, even Medal of Honor was terrific when the demo first came out, playing in a dark room with a large monitor and some good speakers. It was intense, it was immersive, and it just oozed atmosphere.

Plenty of other very atmospheric games out there, including shooters, that also have good gameplay. 

What other game made you jump when a monster suddenly appeared ?

Super Mario Brothers. 

>And how does something being more "real" or vivid cause imagination to dwindle? I feel that it is quite the opposite.

Agreed. I loved the technology feel of Dino Crisis 1 and 2. It was so believable and real feeling. It was scary. Everyone loved the Resident Evil games but Dino Crisis has an intelligent raptor chasing me through a base that very much resembles todays technology in some ways (as well as allusions to the management system, hehe), and was very much more advanced in others. It was a beautiful, intense, realistic "feeling" game.

I can say the same of metal gear solid. 

Yes in a sense it does cause imagination to dwindle. Which is more stimulating, television or books?

OK what I mean to say is that Quake does (or did) have cutting edge technology in the sense that it had true 3D and a copious palette. But it does not have the visuals that a UT2K3 has, and that is to it's benefit.

There is room in the mind to "fill in the blanks" when playing Quake. You imagine the Quake world without actually seeing it in expanse or minute detail -- and therein lies the fun of it =) 

I just like the way it plays. 

Originality. That's about all.

The zombies rip flash from themselves and throw it at you... and without explosives/quad, those suckers JUST WON'T DIE!

In the 7/8 years since I first played quake, I don't remember anything as scary as, for example, E1M2's Jumpy Feind... I got killed lots there, until I realised the moving blocks trick...

Now the big teddy... our friend the Shambler... Explosives don't hurt him as bad... just like phil said, '[rockets] kill stuff'. But not our teddy... Those claws... and the lightning! I ran, let me tell ya.

Oh... and I've learned to shoot anything spewing white... friend or foe, I just don't trust it any more.

I still jump...


You just don't see originality like that any more... 

It's unfortunate that other games, in the race for originality, have simply given up and taken the more beaten paths.

Still, there are other genres of games that are producing interesting stuff. Even if it's not original, it can play well and scare the hell out of you. :)