B()IP 

without cheating, but both times (with a bit different strategies) it was with major difficulties (lots of dying and reloading).

I think one of the problems is that there's no armor at all, this in a very open map with 4 shamblers, 5 vores, 2 fiends and lots of ogres and deathknights that attacks from above and below.

Another important thing is that the only way out of the pit is via a rather convoluted path that is heavily guarded, and any slip later on will force you to go all the way again (constantly under attack).

The last thing is that you don't get the weaponry to deal with this situation. I normally don't use the RL much, but I feel that in this map it's pretty much essential to balance the advantage of the heavy monsters on the ledge.

With a limited supply of rockets, it could be useful without tripping the balance the other way.

Putting out multiple vores and shamblers from the distance with only the SG is pretty tedious. I once managed to kill a flying Q2 boss with only my blaster (in Powersphere Quest) and it's not something I'd like to repeat very often.

It's still a nice map Mike :) 

n 

That's impressive! How long did it take to do that triple-rodney jump? 

I didn't put the rocket launcher in the map quite deliberately.

Once you have cleared the ground area the vores would be too easy with the RL. Only having the GL forces you to get close. The centre vore should be taken out from below, by the lift. She cannot quite get her bombs over the lip of the walkway. Jump, and fire the GL at the top of the jump. This is always the way I deal with high vores without the RL.

The other two can be taken from the ground by the bridge or from on the parapet.

The next two vores are no problem at all if you picked up the nails from the first pond. Just bob up and down in the second pond and shoot the one who spawns on the transporter. Hopefully :-), this one either killed you the first time or at least took some health, hence the mega-health in the second pond.

The last vore can be shot or grenaded without much problem.

I haven't managed to kill both shamblers whilst staying on the high track - I took and gave some damage, then dropped to the ground and took them out with the GL.

And yes, you may need to go all the way around the map agin to get to the exit. Clearly, this is not a speed runner's map...

The theme was arena: I actually made the map for the previous week's SM. The Christians didn't have anywhere to hide in the Roman arenas and that was the idea here - kill or be killed.

Hang on, it's only a game. 

aguirRe, is that really you ;) 

have a sort of split personality disorder, sometimes I also have it with Scragbait ... 

FMB d00d, do you want the demo?? Send me an email address or summat... 

I once managed to kill a flying Q2 boss with only my blaster (in Powersphere Quest)

Ohhhhhh yes I remember that. Except I seem to remember also taking out a 5 tanks and a tank boss with the blaster too...or was it a tank and 5 tank bosses?? 

And yes, you may need to go all the way around the map agin to get to the exit. Clearly, this is not a speed runner's map...

Yes it is. Double GL or highly theoretical triple Vore ball jump to exit. Would be very hard to survive I grant you, but "path blocked solely by height + explosives to hand" = "a speedrunner's map" =) 

And there was me thinking you were joshing!

I would love to see the demo: mikewoodham at msn dot com will do fine.

Thanks.

And your comment re speed running is very interesting. I had never thought of it in that way. I will now see if I can incorporate that idea into FMB15, which is also a terrain based map but with more (salvaged from others scraps) building work. The trouble is, as some girlfriends of mine often remark, "the sheer size of it is going to be a problem. It'll all end in tears." 

My view on that, for what it's worth is that you shouldn't deliberately incorporating by compromising any of your mapping ideas, but neither should you deliberately hinder it by blocking off potential areas solely to hinder speedrunners.

Demo sent. 

Who the fuck took over my brain while I was typing that?! Read...

My view on that, for what it's worth, is that you shouldn't deliberately incorporate it by compromising any of your mapping ideas, but neither should you deliberately hinder it by blocking off potential shortcuts solely to hinder speedrunners.


Now watch me b0rk the tags...=/ 

Loved the demo. Thank you very much for taking the trouble.

And I am sorry if this is a bit smarmy but seeing you complete the map, killing everything, and no 'God', no 'noclip', no 'gives', taking the trouble to do something twice to do it right, makes it worthwhile to create maps.

I really do get very depressed when I read that players "had to Godmode". No they didn't, they chose to Godmode because they were too lazy or because they actually had no interest in completeing the map in the first place.

When I finish Bastion, you betcha that I will go and have a good look round. But I will finish it first.

As I said earlier, speed maps do not have to be speed finish (speed running apart).

And I take on board what you say about influencing design to accomodate styles of play.

And no, I am not on a crusade: this happens to be just one bee in just one of my pretty bonnets.

OK, back to mapping. 

Well, I only resort to cheats if it's totally fucking nails, or something that I'm not that interested in playing anyway because it's crap or otherwise (this is what I did initially with yours because it's only a speedmap arena and not exactly the pinnacle of my gaming interest - with all due respect of course, it's pretty good for a speedmap). Good normal maps I'll always try to complete even if I have to try harder *gasp*. 

i never cheat playing maps normally.

I have killed shamblers with axes, rather than cheat. >=)

only time i can ever allow myself to/remember cheating was on a *boring boss battle*(TM)at the end of a custom map unit [cant remember which] when i didnt have enough ammo. 

I'm sure it was one of Vondur's maps

-=8:-E) 

had a tough map three or four sessions ago that I finally cheated on after several attempts at not dying. Maybe I should go back and finaly conquer that thing. 

..in 25 seconds :D

http://scampie.spawnpoint.org/moo/sm79_zwiffle_25.zip 

got in 15 secs, can certainly be done 2-3 secs faster.
I'll upload it when I get home 

I have killed shamblers with axes, rather than cheat. >=)

Now that's in the category of too hard / too pointless.

Lodis: Will be interested to see....should be pretty quick with some sort of shortcut off the first crate?? Do SM79_FMB too =) 

I did an ER in 30 seconds without trying very hard... I guess some kind of gj/voreball thingy straight to the exit could save 10 secs or so. An NR would be more frustrating :-) 

zwiffles in 0:15
http://hem.bredband.net/b211256/sm/s79z_015.dz

fmb as per request, in 0:13
http://hem.bredband.net/b211256/sm/s79f_013.dz 

I consider any normal exploit by your own weapons to not just be a speedrunning thing. Multi-grenade (w/o nearby 666 at least), Voreball, Ogre grenade, Baaul-rocket jumps are speedrunning. 

You're deluded.