I'm no mapper but I'm sure it's more easier and less time consuming to make a 32 map wad for doom and a 32 level pak for quake. 

making a doom wad is about 1/10 as long as making a quake map.

that's a generalisation, of course, but it's what i have observed.

ne1_q2dm took about 2 weeks to make during my comp class whereas last year i was able to make a doom map of comparable quality in about 8 hours.

i'm sure this has to do with the relative amount of detail in a doom map. usually, you're only concerned with actual geometry, then textures, then maybe lighting (making fancy shadows and what not) and only working in 2 dimensions simplifies things a lot. 

In general, that is true. You can make a playable map in DoomCad for Doom quicker than you can in similar circumstances for Quake. However, for the game play element, the time factor of developing the ideas that propel a level are pretty much the same.

Take Hell Revealed for instance. The typical map is designed so your route choices are open ended -- except for the monster placement factor where the areas and the pick ups in the areas are weighed dramatically differently. The player is forced to think strategically about his route and pick off the weaker monsters and gradually escalate who he is willing to go up against after that. It probably takes a greater deal of time to plan a layout like this than it does for your generally conceived Quake map.

This sort of game play is easier to produce in my opinion with the Nehahra balance of monsters and weapons than it is for unmodified Quake. 

Go Software Engine, it's what Jesus would want. :) 

Jesus's computer can probably do rt t&l in software at 200fps. 

Jesus don't need a 'puter as he can view the entire world in his head RT no problem (at infinite fps).
:) 

God doesn't have a head 

same thing, we are all one 

I should have mentioned this earlier, but if you are looking for a coder who can correct the camera problems; I would recommend Anthony of Dead on Que for the job. He is profecient with camming and media related code pertaining to Quake. 

I just got my PC upgraded, so I can play that nifty new Painkiller demo! And I'm on AOL by the way, but I'm not giving out my address (really tired of all the spam)... 

 

jesusHchrist@aol.com, by any chance? 

I'm not going to say -- but here is my webpage: http://members.aol.com/jesus316/ 

I actually posted that stuff above, but have nothing to do with that website. Just happened upon it -- so don't go mailing that guy (who may or may not be The Real Deal) and talking about the Painkiller demo. I don't want to deal with the bad juju it might generate ;) 

Whatever happened to this? 

It faded into Obscurusity.

Guffaw. 

seems like it.

i might email mindcrime. 

I haven't forgotten about this thread. I check it from time to time. I had this thread as a means of letting people put their 2 cents in and toss thoughts around. Never misinterpret my silence or absence as meaning nothing is happening :p

I updated the nehahra webpage at:

http://www.planetquake.com/nehahra

... and I have decided (firmly) to ditch COOP and DEATHMATCH. Absent of multiplayer, I have that much more room to concentrate on the single player game experience.

I also lean against having in-level cutscenes or even in-between level scenes. My thoughts are ... perhaps ... one short intro which gets right into the meat of the story without pussy-footing around. 

:)

also, although a short intro does start everything off fast, you can get more depth via longer intro... just 0.02. 

Hi!

And: Neh Nekkid plz kthx.

P.S. Please ask aguiRe to include a cvar to change particle effects back to the way they were in GLQuake. And make Phil the hero! 

its nice to hear this is still in your thoughts, mindcrime.

You should make it your overall project goal to make an even better single player epxerience than the superb Nehahra. =) 

I kinda forgot about the Nehahra nekkid thing ...

As for long intros ... I take a lesson from my experience with Nehahra. Any long dems will be separate, related but not mandatory, things. Some people dig watching quake movies or cinematics. Some people just want to play.

The 3 demo intro to the Nehahra game, between nehstart and neh1m1, should have been separate, as Seal of Nehahra was separate...

And I've begun writing a script for a pure Ph1l movie ... just for shits and giggles ... that'd sure be a fun project to undertake... 

or, if possible, make skipping the intro as simple as pressing a key or something like that... don't know if that's possible with demos though. :\ 

I've had a range of emails regarding Nehahra and how I would 'upgrade' it. One thing I have to be careful about is using my free time wisely. In creating Nehahra (aside from the problem of being a newbie at just about every aspect of modding) my resources were divided by too many projects at once, even if they all were Nehahra related.

When I started Nehahra (back before it even had a name) I was just doing a lot of tinkering and it began to grow into *something*. Working on it alone, my mental resources were divided between game code, models, sounds, skins (hah, I think it's of no surprise to anyone that I'm no artist...) ... and hey, that's a lot of stuff to juggle, that's a lot of hats to have to wear. So let's be modest and say that was 3 hats to wear, 3 balls to juggle.

I approached mappers when I had something to show and many came onboard when Nehahra was only a fraction of what it became. So the code, the models, the sounds, everything, was still a work-in-progress. Then I had to play the part of team leader and juggle the 'administerial ball' and 'p1mpmaster ball' for lack of better terms that my foggy mind cannot come up with. Organizing and overseeing a team is a big hat to wear. So call that 5 balls to juggle.

Then the movie ... all while everything else was in development ... I wrote it, coded it, shot it, did the voice acting.. how many balls are we up to now? I dunno. But you get my point.

I had too many balls! (HAHA!)

Hence, my firm decision not to bring mappers into Obscurus until the game is virtually done on my end (not that'll be adverse to adding some extras ... and I'm certain to have lots of bugs to fix... bugs are insidious things).

Anyway, so now I see my focus splintering again ... Obscurus ... Nehahra improvements ... cinematic ventures ... This is not only dangerous but likely to cause delay on all of the above.

The thought I had tonight was that Obscurus ... is a bit like an "off-shoot" from Nehahra. A few of the monsters I have in the progs/ directory (none of the monsters I have running in the game yet though) are Nehahra monsters redone, higher polygon, not even based on the original models...

My thought was, well, why not make the Nehahra off-shoot a tad stronger and bring the rest of the Nehahra monsters into Obscurus. That way, I'm technically working on both simultaneously. So while I might be working on a new Tsemoch for Obscurus (which I'm not at this moment, it's just an example)... it will also replace the Tsemoch in nehahra. We're talking models and animation frames (the Obscurus versions will have many more).

In terms of code, I think I should fix the things that are broke in Nehahra, but I don't think changing the AI or gameplay would be a good idea. Some people didn't dig the enhanced 'combat AI' in Nehahra (not that I can understand this, I like to be tense when playing a game and often desperate, basically I enjoy being in a world of shit ... it gets the adrenaline flowin') BUT some of the emails I've gotten... and some of the sentiments I've gotten in the past ... were... some people like Nehahra just as it is (AI wise). They don't want a chance in gameplay.

And after 4 years of Nehahra being the way it is, perhaps the gameplay is something I should leave.

The models however can be improved. If I bring on in some of my old monster friends from Nehahra into Ob, I'll be justified in working on them. Haha! (Or will I?)

The one thing I will not do is bring in the Quake monsters into Obscurus ... Not on the principle that Ob would then cease to be a TC ... and not even in reckoning that the differences in the Quake models versus Ob models would be too stark and won't go all too well together ... (both of which are true)

But because ... man ... the original baddies.. I don't want to touch. I don't want to try making a better fiend or shambler ... In Nehahra I added extra animations, that's different. I even used a few as bases as kinda-sorta-new ones (new variations), but the original monsters I did NOT touch visually.

That would be like defiling a holy shrine ...

(I did not/do not feel the same way about their AI itself, of course ... but if I had, Nehahra wouldn't be what it is... UNIQUE.)

Anyway, as usual, as is the purpose of this thread, I welcome commentary... 

I thought obscurus was going to be more a 'steampunky' theme, rather than an offshoot of nehahra. I dont see that you could use too much of the nehahra monsters if that was still the case.

As for updating models etc for nehahra, I dont really think that's all that worthwhile an idea. Like you said, it's 4 years old. Anyone that likes it will already have it, the new models arent really going to be a big deal. Just put your improved modelling/skinning/animating skills to use in making Obscurus better.

Also, there's a modeller called Dylan who's made some imrpessive looking stuff on display in the Arcane Wizard thread. Considering him to lower the ball load might be an idea.