Note...
#942 posted by than on 2007/07/14 11:00:20
Preach is getting quite a lot of stuff done. Necros had done most of the stuff we had asked for already so I'm not sure finishing it off is going to be too hard for Preach.
Whilst I doubt that any requested monster types will be added, I wouldn't put those trigger ents out of the question because 1. the work to add them is fairly minimal 2. some of them add a lot of general functionality to Quoth for mappers and 3. the code is already there on that page, so maybe preach won't mind adding them.
I think we are still lacking conditional triggers in the current version, and people are always asking about how to do them in the mapping help thread, so maybe that would be a nice addition for anyone wanting to make Quoth maps.
I'll go through the list (http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/quake/trig.php) now and give my thoughts on each trigger type. I don't have any need to use most of these things in any of my current maps, but I think that most of them could be beneficial to future maps.
trigger_changetarget - sounds amazingly useful and can probably be implemented in a general manner without much code. Allowing a trigger to make trains or monsters change path could be really cool, and in addition to the random trigger would allow the mapper to set up roaming monsters of some sorts without big changes to the AI.
trigger_random - quoth already supports multiple targets, so presumably having a trigger that can select from valid targets and trigger one of them randomly wouldn't be too hard but would probably be pretty useful.
trigger_explode - info_notnull can already be used to trigger explosions, although they can only be used once and the hack can cause problems when trying to load maps in deathmatch with some engines. Could be useful.
trigger_lots - quoth already supports triggering of multiple entities with target target2 target3 etc.
trigger_sight - Sounds a bit esoteric but a more general version that would also allow the mapper to set trigger on sight and within a given range could be a little more useful.
trigger_setspeed - I think quoth already supports this for func_trains although I'd have to try it to see how simple it is to use.
trigger_message - useful for coop. The option to have a sound and delay built into it would be nice.
improved path_corner/func_train - not sure, but I think necros added these for one of his maps but it didn't end up in the quoth documentation.
toggleable hurt/push triggers - sounds very useful. A more general implementation that allows any trigger type to be deactivated/reactivated would be fantastic, but I'm not sure how much work that would require.
doors that trigger after open/close - would be useful mostly because it would mean that if the movement of a door was blocked, any trigger based on the door movement wouldn't fire until the door was fully open/closed. Only as an additional option to the existing behavior though.
trigger_if - Could be extremely useful, although it sounds like a pita to implement. Can it even be done with one entity? I think you would need to have a trigger_output entity or something that could be triggered to activate or deactivate and then when the main trigger was triggered all of the active outputs would fire. That would allow if triggers, but MAYBE a more flexible system would be better. I'm not sure.
I'd like to hear Preach's thoughts on the trigger extensions.
Trigger_sight Ftw.
#943 posted by Text_Fish on 2007/07/14 12:24:22
I can think of so many scenarios in which that would be awesome.
Than
#944 posted by ijed on 2007/07/14 17:31:27
You forgot the func_destructable (or whatever it was called). It's in Quoth1 but doesn't work.
Yes, no requests; but to have that working and destroyable by enemies and the player would be the muts nuts.
Preach / Than / Kell
#945 posted by JPL on 2007/07/14 18:14:10
On my current project, I used Quoth, and I have a weird effect when (quick)saving, and reloading the map. The monster count (at the end of the level) doesn't correspond to any of the skillset.. Any idea about this issue ??
Quoth Request
#946 posted by ijed on 2007/07/14 21:21:26
A flag on all flame lights / braziers for 'burning damage' - the player takes 1 damage per 0.5 seconds that they're within 8 units of the light's origin. With the 'BBBB played with fire' deathmessage, of course. Wouldn't work for the tall braziers but the others would be ok. It'd just save a bit of legwork and entity count.
Ok, no more requests.
Except maybe drowning, burning and corroding monsters. And weight physics. With tipping.
The Caretaker
#947 posted by Preach on 2007/07/14 21:26:49
The way I see it is that I've taken over coding for Quoth, but I've haven't taken over designing. I'm a caretaker. So I'm trying to work with a soft touch, not really adding things that aren't already established in Quoth, just implementing promised features and bug fixing stuff. Even adding the key dropping feature was probably overstepping those bounds. If there was something that is absolutely needed for a one of the maps in this pack, then I'd probably relent.
Also, if you can persuade Kell or Necros it's a good idea, I'll add it.
Well
#948 posted by ijed on 2007/07/14 21:44:42
Something like the built in flame damage would be a nice thing to have, but its not a map breaker and I reckon you've got enough on your plate with all the 'promised' stuff.
I'm putting something together now in Quoth which will be finished after Quoth2 is out; so I'll most likely backtrack and integrate the new features / enemies it contains.
Just thinking that anything that makes Quoth a more universal Quake mod can't be a bad thing; ie. 'why use Quake standard progs anymore?'
Hmm
#949 posted by aguirRe on 2007/07/14 23:56:25
... because the weapons and other player resources are actually balanced against the monsters?
#950 posted by than on 2007/07/15 04:11:43
Just thinking that anything that makes Quoth a more universal Quake mod can't be a bad thing; ie. 'why use Quake standard progs anymore?'
That's what I was thinking. The trigger related stuff isn't going to imbalance the gameplay because it's more for map scripting etc. But yeah, I guess it's important to get the opinion of Kell and Necros before messing with things too much.
Flame Damage
#951 posted by Text_Fish on 2007/07/15 11:29:29
is the single most irritating thing I've ever encountered in a Quake map.
Yes
#952 posted by Vigil on 2007/07/15 12:30:54
The Quake Guy is too bad ass to be damaged by mere torches.
Text_fish
#953 posted by than on 2007/07/15 12:34:07
yeah, I don't like it either because it feels like the mapper has gone to some effort to add something totally pointless that punishes the player for no reason.
It was pretty pointless in Q3 too and the sound effect was shit.
Besides, now you can add trigger_hurt without using a precache slot, you can set them up manually for each torch and do the same shit if you really want to irritate the player.
Backtracking
#954 posted by golden_boy on 2007/07/28 14:39:43
as Ijed said, would be required for maps currently in progress (as Ijed put it, "something") but aimed at "after Quoth2 is out" :/
In short, I still think that "backtracking" is suboptimal. We'd have to redo monster placement and playtesting. I got the progs updates, but the pak updates would be nice too. Kell, did you choose to not reply or did you just not get my email? Or is there "another reason"? :)
Feuer Fresser!
#955 posted by madfox on 2007/07/28 22:01:01
it more irritates when flames don't hurt!
Preach: Quoth2 Bug Reports
#956 posted by golden_boy on 2007/08/01 16:07:51
Sorry, not at my computer, so I put them here.
1. After dying in f. ex. slime, the screen is still tinted upon respawn. Happens regularly. Example is the Quoth startmap, die in the lava and respawn with red tinted screen. Tint goes away when picking up armor etc.
2. togglewall (forcefield) is buggy. The particles often aren't spawned for no apparent reason, but the wall is obviously working/blocking. To do with proximity of other ents? angle? texture? other forcefields? Noise/noise1 key isn't working on togglewall at least when used as forcefield. I have to use a trigger_multiple for playing a blocking sound.
3. Breakable is buggy. It looks for rock.mdl but can't find it. It also can't find some impact sounds. pak issue? :(
Feature request (hey, I reported bugs): Could the forcefield only spawn particles when touched? That shouldn't be too difficult to implement. Star Trek style.
gb
Bump
#957 posted by Zwiffle on 2007/08/13 21:22:30
^
Progress
#958 posted by Preach on 2007/08/13 21:59:53
Lots is going on behind the scenes here, don't worry.
The 1st bug in the post above was kinda interesting though, as it turns out it's a very long standing engine bug. If you're in lava and you execute "v_cshift 0 0 0 0" command, then restart the level, the lava tint remains and v_cshift doesn't affect it. This only occurs in software rendering engines though. I have just this minute discovered a workaround for this though, "v_cshift 0 0 1 0" looks the same, because the intensity of the colour shift is zero, but the bug doesn't occur for this value.
Fun time trick: run winquake, and type "v_cshift 0 0 0 -2500" in. Better than the TF spy's grenade, that's for sure.
Phait...
#959 posted by distrans on 2007/08/14 07:49:21
...please send source for PH8DM2 to my gmail acc. Ta!
#960 posted by Trinca on 2007/08/16 12:18:53
still working on mine second maps 70% made ore one month t might be ready!
Ya...
#961 posted by distrans on 2007/08/31 04:19:28
...if it drags on a bit more I might be able to add this to the mix:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6071/dissp08zl1.jpg
No Objections Here
#962 posted by HeadThump on 2007/08/31 05:02:47
I still have plenty of work to do on my map and I wont get to it until the Indian Summer map is finished. No official due date has been given, I suspect it will depend on the next pak release, and come through a consensus, and typicaly such things are scheduled weeks after a consensus is reached.
Trinca has the URL for the beta pak tucked away somewhere, so I would suggest shooting him an email if you need it.
Hellz Bellz
#963 posted by HeadThump on 2007/08/31 05:04:59
that looks straight out of a Doom3 mod with model to brush designs and everything!
WOoOoh Yesss!
#964 posted by johnxmas on 2007/08/31 05:15:09
What is this texture set? D3remix?
Sweet honeycomb pavements and lacy metal beams...
Fine lighthing.
Me want it!
Suggestion
#965 posted by inertia on 2007/08/31 05:27:03
If anyone wants to make a map for this pack, without taking a ton of effort, I suggest my recently GPL'ed base map for the task :D
Distrans
#966 posted by JPL on 2007/08/31 07:54:49
It's nice to see how good you use Doom3 texture set ;)
You rock !
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