no idear... i think deadline is still huge... 

if it's adviseable to use Quoth beta for mapping. I seem to remember that some of you guys used that. And if it's usable for mapping, I'd like to know where I can get it.

I do not want to jump on the Base Pack wagon :-P

gb 

would really be up to Kell and Necros because it is their material, and I can understand as a point of professionalism that they would not want some of the less polished aspects of the pack used generaly just yet. Perhaps there are some individual things in the pack they would be willing to give there blessing to using, but that I can't say.

I don't think it is too late to join the project though if anyone wants to contribute. I know Trinca, Than and I are working on our maps this week , and Preach has been sharing some new code. We also took Metl's advice and there is an active e-mail list going on as well. So things are looking up. 

the alternative is to wait until "Quoth2" is ready and then adjust for the changes, re-playtest etc.

It's not unlikely that Quoth2 will happen _before_ my ep. 1 thing and Ijed's ep. 3 remake. So nothing would leak before Quoth is ready.

I might e-mail Kell. 

Headthump said: ...and I can understand as a point of professionalism that they would not want some of the less polished aspects...

I still don't agree with the whole idea that the development of QuothII must be up to just a couple of guys working in private who get to sit on a half-finished pack at the inconvenience of a lot of mappers. My stance isn't anything personal against Kell or Necros, but as an open source advocate I have a strong distaste for artificial limitations imposed on the func community as a result of closed-source development.

Everyone knows in-progress code is messy, there is no issue with professionalism, just completeness. Speaking of professionalism, Quoth is free, so I don't see the harm done to Kell or Necros by making the incomplete version of QuothII fully freely available. 

Make maps, not war! 

metlslime is the wise man :) 

New Screenies of JackBoot Primate (my base pack map).

Started out as a purely Tiddle's style Industrial/Morter design, I've added some detail using Zerst�rer bunk textures to get a heavy grunge fusion going on here:

http://mortisville.quakedev.com/primate22.jpg

This screenshot is accessible from this vantage point:

http://mortisville.quakedev.com/primate29.jpg

Some smooth shadowing for the ladies:

http://mortisville.quakedev.com/primate31.jpg

There are dead bodies up ahead (keep your eyes averted from the left hand corner beam. Ignore it. Oooh look, a health pack!)

http://mortisville.quakedev.com/primate35.jpg 

Grim. And that's good.

The whole pack looks like its shaping up to be great. 

like a good place to kill monsters in. Bring on the hordes! 

Looks gorgeous! 

One thing that stands out though is I've lazily over used that riveted sheet metal texture and need to vary it up. I'll keep it where it is on that wall in the pic primate35 though. Thanks to AquiRe's lighting tool that one has a nice supersaturated almost purple-ish undertone. 

pretty nice...
is the alignment of the brown riveted tex on purpose, so that the rivets are not always on the outside?
Like in the last shot:
http://mortisville.quakedev.com/primate35.jpg
It would almost seem that a smaller texture would fit better? 

(keep your eyes averted from the left hand corner beam. Ignore it. Oooh look, a health pack!)

That was the part I was too lazy to fix, well too blurry eyed actually at the end of an evening of mapping to deal with at the time. The rivet texture shouldn't be on the crossbeams at all, but I also still need to work on the brushwork in that spot too so I just slopped the texture down for now. 

Could the Quoth team consider those:

1. Missing sound when a key door is opened.

That sound is not played in vanilla Quake (bug) and Quoth1. Qdqstats (and Travail) have it. It's probably only a small fix.

2. Key drops

That is probably my #1 Quake mapping wish, to have an enforcer death-drop a keycard. No idea how hard this is to implement though.

I think at least the first one counts as a bug report. 

#1 is easily fixed. Just changing which channel the key sound plays on, as I recall. 

Check your e-mails guys, new patch out. 

I like your architecture and details, but that map badly needs some more color. Like light fixtures, or maybe even a proper secondary color. Now it's basically just brownish grey/greyish brown. 

Spirit just came across this site: http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/quake/trig.php
Among other things, there are also some examples for additional triggers that might be useful in some situations, e.g. trigger_changetarget, trigger_random, trigger_if. 

I agree. What made the original Tiddle maps work well was the strong contrast of color and material themes. It is something I'm aspiring to get back to while mapping this weekend. 

monster_bat

Like a flying voreling, this would be primarily an irritation/atmosphere tool. Especially in conjunction with the flashlight - they could react to light sources. A model could be pretty small and simple, as could the skin.

monster_eel

A swimmer that can exist in slime, unlike rotfish.

Proximity mines (lots of existing mods, would just have to be incorporated.) Perhaps DM only.

Spheres like in Quake2 mission pack 2. Defender sphere, hunter sphere, primarily useful in DM.

sorry if I'm babbling, I'm tired. -> bed

=) 

You guys don't know the "no requests" bit from the Quoth readme, do you?

Q: The new monsters are cool, but I'd like [insert generic monster concept here] for my latest map. Would you make it for me?

A: Feedback = Good. Playtesting = Good. But we don't do requests. Sorry. 

 

True. Was still worth a try though. 

Preach is getting quite a lot of stuff done. Necros had done most of the stuff we had asked for already so I'm not sure finishing it off is going to be too hard for Preach.

Whilst I doubt that any requested monster types will be added, I wouldn't put those trigger ents out of the question because 1. the work to add them is fairly minimal 2. some of them add a lot of general functionality to Quoth for mappers and 3. the code is already there on that page, so maybe preach won't mind adding them.

I think we are still lacking conditional triggers in the current version, and people are always asking about how to do them in the mapping help thread, so maybe that would be a nice addition for anyone wanting to make Quoth maps.

I'll go through the list (http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/quake/trig.php) now and give my thoughts on each trigger type. I don't have any need to use most of these things in any of my current maps, but I think that most of them could be beneficial to future maps.

trigger_changetarget - sounds amazingly useful and can probably be implemented in a general manner without much code. Allowing a trigger to make trains or monsters change path could be really cool, and in addition to the random trigger would allow the mapper to set up roaming monsters of some sorts without big changes to the AI.

trigger_random - quoth already supports multiple targets, so presumably having a trigger that can select from valid targets and trigger one of them randomly wouldn't be too hard but would probably be pretty useful.

trigger_explode - info_notnull can already be used to trigger explosions, although they can only be used once and the hack can cause problems when trying to load maps in deathmatch with some engines. Could be useful.

trigger_lots - quoth already supports triggering of multiple entities with target target2 target3 etc.

trigger_sight - Sounds a bit esoteric but a more general version that would also allow the mapper to set trigger on sight and within a given range could be a little more useful.

trigger_setspeed - I think quoth already supports this for func_trains although I'd have to try it to see how simple it is to use.

trigger_message - useful for coop. The option to have a sound and delay built into it would be nice.

improved path_corner/func_train - not sure, but I think necros added these for one of his maps but it didn't end up in the quoth documentation.

toggleable hurt/push triggers - sounds very useful. A more general implementation that allows any trigger type to be deactivated/reactivated would be fantastic, but I'm not sure how much work that would require.

doors that trigger after open/close - would be useful mostly because it would mean that if the movement of a door was blocked, any trigger based on the door movement wouldn't fire until the door was fully open/closed. Only as an additional option to the existing behavior though.

trigger_if - Could be extremely useful, although it sounds like a pita to implement. Can it even be done with one entity? I think you would need to have a trigger_output entity or something that could be triggered to activate or deactivate and then when the main trigger was triggered all of the active outputs would fire. That would allow if triggers, but MAYBE a more flexible system would be better. I'm not sure.

I'd like to hear Preach's thoughts on the trigger extensions.