nice additions, most of it works nicely.

map wise, Red777 - impressive, especially the outdoor section. Immaculately textured and lit but the layout is not very good and quite confusing and crampy.

ne_deadcity - map could have been built better but nice gameplay. too plain in the looks department.

ne_marble - classy, similar brushwork to deadcitry in parts but overall execution a lot better. Plus it had those really cool looking set piece areas. And I swear the very start bit had me fooled into thinking there was some coloured lighting implemented.

Excellent gameplay too.

Top work, I hope other mappers use this stuff, though I can envisage some truly evil gug scenarios. 

i played with fitz... i spied the pak including some tga's... are they 24-bit? Not constrained to quake palette? 

yes, they are (in some cases) directly out of the doom wad file, so the colours are true to the original (if you play in glquake, you'll notice that the actual palette doesn't respond well to doom marble and looks more yellow, like some fiend went and pissed all over the walls...)

the red-shifted textures actually turned out ok in the quake palette, but i included them as tgas for consistency.

it was nice to work with the tga textures to get a nice vibrant green feel to the map (it made that one unreal rock texture really come alive). i think i might do this more often, as it lets me explore themes that haven't before appeared in quake. 

So... nobody cares about us lowly WC mappers. Just kidding.
I.W., if you read this - I know I would appreciate it if you would make up an fgd file for Quoth. I'm sure other budding mappers without an understanding of the fgd's nature would also appreciate it. 

i think i need a qrk file :) 

kell is working on one, actually. 

Sorry, I have made headway with it. I started quite well at the beginning of the week, but then fatigue and formatting got the better of me and my brain came out my ears. I've spent the last few days poking it back in with a pencil.
I'll hopefully have a finsihed .fgd for the weekend. 

Could the following be done:

You start in a hub with a choice of 3 paths to take. As you take each path, and return to the hub, the entrance to that path is blocked. Once all 3 paths have been completed, a new set of 3 paths open. Once they are explored, the final path is opened and you play the final map. 

Yes, in the privacy of my head, that makes sense. You could do that. However, having '3 then another 3' is not inbuilt functionality. You'd need to achieve that effect with the 3 info_mapgates also firing at a trigger_counter ( which has a "count" of "3" obviously ) and the trigger_counter then fires to open up access to the other 3 entrances. 

the new monsters are nice, though i'm still not sure about the gug - it looks kind of strange (maybe it's the head...), but i like the earthquake when it falls to the floor. knight variations are good, too. i can't comment on the base monsters so much, atm.
the chapters monsters rule anyway.
the plasma gun model (or rather its skin) doesn't fit.

necros: deadcity was okay, but i got stuck in one corner behind the stargate teleporter ring and had to noclip out.
marb was great - the doom textures look good, very detailed and all, even though i had the impression they make the map look a little like candy or something?! nice to see some decent rotation again; the lift before the end was nice, too.
one 'monster can't find target' error once.

kell: cool testmaps.
red777 rules! so big and detailed, and soo many clever secrets (of which i only found 5 at first :/)! i wished for more monsters, though.
i can't think of anything else to say - likely this map is just prefect in many ways.

kellcros: in most of your maps 'wallmonster in wall' warnings appear when monsters are spawned. it doesn't affect the gameplay afaik, but still the messages suck. is this related to the spawn code? 

monster can't find target
wallmonster in wall

never got those errors when playing. i assume you're using an engine besides fitz/dp/gl/software. i only tested in fitz, dp and the normal engines.

it's worth looking into, but since non of the engines i have give those errors, i don't know if i can do anything.

if you tell me what engine you were using, i'll d/l it and take a look 

fitzquake, developer mode 

i never used that o.o

guess i should develope, in.. you know... developer mode. :P

still though, why are you playing a mod in dev mode? o.0

you should expect to see extra text in dev mode. if it bugs you, stop playing with it on. 

i added the command to my fitzq shortcut, so i don't have to type it everytime i run the game, for i am contantly developing (errm, well..)
you're right, i could have turned it off, but how would you have learned about the warnings then? :) 

touch� ;) 

When my brain leaks out I usually just wait for the drugs to wear off. My brain seems to be much more docile in this state, and pushing it back in is less of a chore. Still hurts like a bitch, though.
Thanks for the commitment and hard work from both of you guys. 

tis done, I've checked the entities appear in WC, though I haven't actually built a map with it. The hipnotic rotatings are in a separate .fgd, cos it was easier to just do a c'n'p from the hipnotic.fgd
Just waiting for necros so they can be uploaded. I'll email them directly to interested mappers today if it's quicker. 

http://www.planetquake.com/necros/quoth/quoth_FGD.zip
here's the fgd file.

Kell also fixed a few typos on the tutorial... ;)
http://www.planetquake.com/necros/quoth/quoth_tutorial.zip 

I realy enjoyed fighting against the base monsters. Bob is my favorite here. The model and skin are great, also the behavior and final explosion. The Rocketeer and Defender are also cool to fight against. But I wouldn't use them in packs of more then 2 monsters.
The Gug is really well done and again fighting against this monster rocks. The earthquake attack is ok. Somehow I didn't like how the projectiles look like. Maybe it's the color.
Can't say much about the Knights.
The Night Gaunt is a bit boring to fight, but since you can kill it fast it is no problem.
And now to the monsters I don't like.
First the Flying Polyp. This one is realy annoying. It hurts you constantly, takes much time and ammo to kill, it always spots you first (this was my impression) and you can't kill it by surprise. The invisibility is unfair somehow. And I also don't like the skin. The only thing I liked about the Polyp was how it dies. When Lost Chapters pack was released I was reading about this monster and everything sounded cool and interesting, but in-game it is terrible in my opinon. I liked the classic quake Spawn much better.
The Drole - I don't like him. He looks strange, and dies strange. The projectiles are really hard to avoid and do lots of damage. In close combat you don't realy have a chance to survive. Again, when I was reading about this monster first time it looked very interesting with those special triggers and stuff, but in-game it is frustraiting.
The Voreling - I liked Kinns spiders better. 

I completly forget where to download the knave texture set... Could somebody give me the link please ? 

It seems the .zip with all the .defs has been replaced with only the tutorial. Is there anyway I could get the .defs for this, as Spog has told me to put all the files in the gtkr folder, which sounds fishy but I would like to try anyway? Hmm? Please? 

that was me screwing up-- i repackaged the tutorial file, but forgot the def files.

anyway, i reuploaded it with all the files again. 

No one could help me til RPG came along and happily converted the file to a .ent using GomJabbar's handy tool (although I couldn't get it to work) and then placed it in q1.game/id1/ AND BEHOLD THE QUOTH MAPPAGE!

In conclusion, RPG is cool. 

...aye 

if I came out too negative when overviewing the whole quoth thing. I just wanted to say that the whole feeling of good and considered consistent design and art is the feeling that I have about it.