First his head thumps, then his balls flop.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/headtump.avi 

nah, wrong image guys, a ball flop is when you grab your sack and drop 'em like this: ggfgfgsdh

on the keyboards. Hmm, lefty is a little heavier then righty. Could be a medical problem. 

so you jump over the "d" right?
let's call that a base explanation. 

at least this pack made me learn something :)

I WILL NEVER AGAIN PARTICIPATE ON A FUCKING PACK 

Progress is being made, you have to understand that the critical path is not likely to mean you're working all the time. It's a bit annoying, but it's one of the things about collaboration. Even when things run smoothly it's gonna take at lot longer than you'd expect, look at how long travail's being "almost done"... 

...that last 5% is a real killer. 

:p 

why so harsh? At least you generated a toppic that lasted 880 replies. You can't say people ignored your enthousiasm.

And then again, don't end up like my cartoon in #873.
There's a cartoon expo in Lissabon.

I know I'm kiddin now, but also if the pack was released with Christmass (and it would turn out real good, despite of the delay)
It would still be THE BASE PACK afterall. 

i dont make same thing as JPL becouse i�m fucking lazy... 

you wrote you had alraedy two maps for the pack. AND...
I apreciate diversity before (you call it?) quality. 

but i llost a litle interres in second map... i might change it :\ 

I'm confident it will be great when it's ready. I'm willing to wait however long it takes.

:-) HAVE FAITH! ;-) 

How did Nehahra actually happen? I guess it had obvious leadership... 

tenacity is as important as creativity and skills and all that other stuff :) 

. . . the only thing that matters is if they can finish them or not. 

Mindcrime was the clear leader for Nehahra, he was almost always on IRC and available for anything we (the mappers) wanted. Most of the new content was already pretty much done when he started recruiting mappers, which probably explains how he got so many mappers involved. 

Back on topic, I'm still really looking forward to this pak, so good luck to all of you finishing up maps. 

Did kell or necros actually make any commitments to the base pack project? It seemed like quoth2 was a seperate endeavor and you guys just decided to hitch your wagon to it. If you want to learn any lessons about how to finish a project, here's the lesson: don't rely on anything that you don't have control over. I'm sure there are a lot of duke nukem forever TCs that have been delayed becyase of 3drealms, but they shouldn't blame George Broussard. 

t seemed like quoth2 was a seperate endeavor and you guys just decided to hitch your wagon to it

The base pack began with Trinca's idea to make a base based set of maps, someone came up with the idea of basing it on Quoth, Kell contacted me soon after to work on the QuakeC as he and Necros have been expanding on the base content (including the brilliant Eddie idea), but none of the base code was available. I did get some of Quoth base monsters up and running without the code base in the few weeks after. Necros who wasn't aware of the expansion project and Quoth base projects have been hitched together discovered it on this board and assumed the role of QuakeC programmer, and from there the adventure has continued. 

since acrimony doesn't help. I support a slow cycle (and kept mum during the flare ups) because it frees everyone involved to work at their own pace and minimizes the intrusion the project would represent on valuable time for all involved.

At the time, the project is in good shape, and good hands. Preach is a far better programmer that I am. I haven't done any deep maths since I was a Michael Abrash fanboy in the 90's. I'm happy to just be working on a map for it, and balance with the time spent on other things. 

why not release it with the original quoth data? I know this sounds stupid after all this negotiating but then it is easier for a mapper to concentrate on and we don't have this delay.

I was in for the original good ol' quake fashion, I'm not that sharp edged shooter.
Although I must admit I too would like new monsters, end boss as I suggested.

But I didn't know it would come to a complete rerun of the Quoth data. 

Anyone care to give a small rundown of the new quoth content for us non-involved, to get a rough idea of what to expect? I know it's not finished yet, but it sounds like some new monsters will be in for sure. 

are mostly new monsters. Most of these monsters have been working fine for ages, just not in a polished state that Kell or Necros would be happy to release.

From a mapping point of view, there are a ton of new features that can be used in maps using Quoth and some of us were pushing for this as much as monsters so that in the future more people would make maps for Quoth rather than Vanilla QC or their own mod because of the wealth of options it offers.

Anyway, it's not just the code that isn't yet done, a few of us have had maps in the works for a long time but no time to work on them, so there is a bit of a delay there. Also I think that perhaps the lack of a mailing list and good communication from the start was a mistake. 

MadFox: why not release it with the original quoth data? I know this sounds stupid after all this negotiating but then it is easier for a mapper to concentrate on and we don't have this delay

Please just note I already proposed it some months ago, and I've been flamed for that... :P

HeadThump: you are rigth, nevertheless I have a single stupid question: Why did Kell provide Quoth2 if his intention was not to finish the stuff ? We were supposed to test it before release, in order to clean it from bugs, and after that: nothing happened... and as you said: from there the adventure has continued and I guess you will still have to wait for "some" time...

In anyway: lazy people suck... :P 

I forgot to sign: JPL the nasty man.... doh !