why isn't quoth under gpl or something like that? no one is making money from it.. 

oh, i'm sorry, was i getting paid to do this? did we miss our intended release date, and now the publisher is coming to kick my ass?

i am in school now, and frankly, quoth is one of the least of my concerns atm. i'm sorry that i had to dump everything on kell, and that he has to put up with you, JPL. frankly, i've found you rather annoying, and you were one of the reasons i was slow to start working on quoth again, esp when you were broaching the idea of actually decompiling the progs.

do i wish i could do it myself? fuck yes. kell and i work extremly well together, and it's always been a pleasure to help him create quoth content. unfortunatly, real life is just too important. that may not be the case for you, dude, but it is definatly so for me. 

 

calm down bitches! 

JPL. frankly, i've found you rather annoying, and you were one of the reasons i was slow to start working on quoth again

This is rather unfair and nasty... 

no-one has been as unfair and nasty as JPL 

Uber-enthustiastic and kinda impulsive should suit him better, imho... 

JPL, Necros never really jumped at the chance to work on the basepack originally, I think it probably ended up going his way because we all wanted some Quoth enhancements and being one of the original creators he felt obliged. Please don't be so angry at Necros (or any of us who haven't been able to finish our maps for various reasons) because this is just a hobby project for all of us - if we can't work on it for whatever reason then you shouldn't get angry at us. It's not like we signed a contract.

I think we will get this pack out eventually, just be patient and try not to be angry at anyone for not meeting deadlines, as those deadlines were only really there to try and motivate people to get things done. Anyway, the delays on this pack are not stopping you from making other Quake maps or doing other things, so please try and be calm about it. 

why isnt quoth source available? i, like everyone else, appreciate the work put into it, but i would really like to know why the code aint free... 

But I'll pitch in anyhow.

There was from an error of judgement a 'promise' (too loaded) that Quoth2 would be available and much better than Quoth. From what I've read everyone went off half-cocked with the basepack. Sorry, but that's the way it looks.

Why do it in the first place? Because Quoth is good. If it takes a couple of months more than you thought for Quoth2 then you either bite the bullet and consign your map to the waiting folder, or release it under Quoth1 with modified entities.

I'm really looking forward to this pack, I've seen a preview of one map, and it was good. This is a hobby. I'd say most of use put more patience, time, effort, blood, sweat and tears into this ten year old game than most others put into thier hobbies. Talking about uber-nerds there.

But it remains a hobby, something you do for fun. If you're that pissed off that your beautiful geometry isn't getting shown then release it solo. But with a little patience it can shine. 

The gauntdrop / cc attack would complete that enemy. I can only guess how many walls would be be hit in trying to implement it, though. 

I'm very sorry if all of have been hurted by my enthusiasm... what you cal "nastyness"

I just would like to remind you that I also have a life beside Quake mapping, and that Quake mapping is also a hobby for me, but when I commit to deliver something: I do it.

IMHO, it is a matter of respect of others. Now it seems that you don't care about other people but yourself.

So if you are happy like this, no problem... I don't care, but then don't ask people to rely on your deliveries when not ready, and also when you don't care: this how I felt it.

I think it is the last time I will try to join any kind of mapping pack project, for sure.
So will rework my maps, no problem...

You can consider me out of the Base Pack scope now, so I will not be a "problem" for you anymore... I will not complain anymore, don't worry... 

releasing the source at this time could easily result in a hodgepodge of different quoth mods all potentially incompatible to each other. 

The hodgepodge is much better than no more Quoth updates at all.

The base pack rules could easily incorporate something like, "use this specific quoth update we have made." 

A lot of people have argued in this basepack thing. A lot of work has been done and is still going on. I released my map because I felt it was time for it. Had some good reply. Still want to use it for the base pack, because it will be much harder then.

Why this arguing about the deadline? the only deadline I see is a good fermented moment I experienced the original Quake feeling. And if it's realy worthwhile time makes no sense and all the same... I have patience.

I admire Trinca for his proposal that has got this tremendous response.
I admire JPL also for his pulling input to get the thing done, which also can be wrong interprented, but is in my opinion only neccesary. The same goes for Necros and Kell, who are only contributing for the love of the game.

What I want to say?
The more you get involved, the more good advice can be misunderstood.

Sorry for my bad language. 

You guys should have just used the existing Quoth.

And inertia: Forking sucks. 

Yeah, and so does dead development. 

Spirit STU :p you dont know Quoth2 :p is brutal for base pack! :p shame that stuff are so delay but what can i say... nobody is pay for is work in here :\

i�making another map for base pack so for me fuck deadline! i dont care anymore... 

Anyone volunteering to help out? I will definitely volunteer to add the bmodel-less triggers and fix up the shooter code, but I am not sure I am capable of doing or have time to do much else.

I guess we could contact the inside3d guys and see if any of them fancy helping out. Even if they don't want to work on it directly, I doubt they will be against giving coding advice etc. if we have any big problems.

How does this sound?

p.s. this doesn't mean I am working on my bp map right now, but it does mean I plan to finish it! 

Does anyone (Kell, Necros, SDA guys if you are reading) think there is a chance of merging Quoth update with the speedrunning stuff when the Quoth side is done? Seeing people run our maps is always cool, and I'm sure it would be good to get it in there as it would open a lot of new maps up to be speedrun. Not only is there the basepack, but there are the actual quoth maps, the vertical pack and a lot of currently unfinished WIP maps that are all using Quoth.

Anyone knowledgeable think it's a possibility? 

I can try and help out with any problems you encounter, advising and stuff. But I can't commit to properly working on it for another month, I have exams and stuff until then. So get in touch now, and if it's still unfinished in a month I can step in "full time", so to speak. 

- JPL wants to make another of his legendary maps, with new Quoth features, which would make his work even better (if that�s possible), and he�s getting impatient due to (understandable) delays.

- K+n don�t have the time to implement these features due to RL.

That�s it, no need for anyone to get upset IMO ;)

I�d say:
JPL: if you want to release, do it, it�s always appreciated by us players to see a new map of yours, I�m sure it will play well in Quoth1.

K+n: no matter how long it takes, we�ll have the patience; Quoth is the best thing since Nehahra and thus an update is worth waiting for.

Keep it up guys, I�m looking forward to the Base Pack. 

don't see why we can't have the source code to quoth... 

I presume it's because they don't want to see their hard work raped. Which seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable concern, given that they've had such clear intentions from the start with Quoth. It is their creation after all, and theirs alone to do with as they please, free of guilt, obligation, or pressure from outside parties. 

they are looking for help to finish it now and since there are people who don't mind helping out I can imagine that it will be finished soon enough and more or less to the spec Kell and Necros wish.