'some mods' ... 'required command-line arguments'.
some? really? surely you mean all... :P 

okay, then I'll try it with Fitz085. 

no-one should really be using the original engines anymore and here is why -

* They are poorly optimised for todays hardware
* They don't properly support modern screen resolutions
* They are graphically inferior (seriously, 8bit lighting on software quake is hideous and GLQuake doesn't support brightmapping or gamma controls)
* They don't have proper netquake support
* They have way less useful features, (like listing all the maps, pausing/rewinding/fastforward demos, debugging)

Fitzquake and Quakespasm are the de-facto engines of choice for Quake purists, they're very faithful to the original game whilst having lovely background features that in no way hinder or ruin the original game experience.

Anyone sticking with the original executables that shipped with the game are making their own lives intentionally more difficult! 

I just used QuakeSpasm to record my demo, and there were no problems with the map change. 

With Fitzquake 0.85, the demo didn't continue recording or rather playing after the load screen. :-/

Why is it even necessary to include an extra load screen in a singleplayer map (ie why does it have to come in 2 parts)? That just complicates demo recording for casual Quake players, if they even figure it out in the first place.

This happened in your last map as well, Sock. Thus I'm sorry, I do try to record demos, it just never works.

Feedback:

I had to install Quake under Windows to play this mod (I normally use FTE or Quakespasm under Ubuntu), since the readme explicitly requires Fitzquake 0.85, which is windows-only. This required 2 reboots because I forgot to copy over a file the first time. It also required messing around with settings and an autoexec.cfg to get standard WASD controls back, plus getting my mouse setup to be inverted and have +jump on mouse2. I don't know if Fitzquake 0.85 has any way to save a config from within the engine (as FTE can), at least I didn't see anything like it. So I wrote an autoexec.cfg file in Notepad. Yay.

Then ingame, I had mouse sensitivity problems; the mouse feels rather different in Fitzquake 0.85 compared to what I normally use. Small annoyance, but it was playable. Had to pause and tweak sensitivity a few times though, which probably didn't help the immersion.

I played on Easy, and it turned out that was a good decision because it was more comparable to id Hard. Still doable for me, though, since I do play shooters regularly, but I'm not sure if this was really a "sightseeing" difficulty as the readme claims. People who don't usually play shooters might still have problems. I died in the gold key part of the map, in a room where I was suddenly rushed by a lot of monsters. I blew myself up with the RL after I was already in red health after trying and failing to dodge the knight horde; IMO there wasn't enough room to dodge, but I might also suck at Quake.

There was otherwise enough health and ammo, so no complaints there. It was nice to get the shaft relatively early.

The map is expertly constructed, the brushwork and texturing are top notch, the fog is tasteful and the lighting felt adequate, so yeah, this didn't disappoint build quality wise. It's a Sock map after all.

The gameplay felt like solidly executed, bog-standard Quake. I believe that was the intention - if it was, then you nailed it.

The routing through the map was adequate, like being dropped right at the silver key door after getting the key and other details like that. This is commendable; well done.

Verdict:

Build quality, visuals and routing are top notch.

Gameplay is adequate, but because it tries to nail the standard Quake feel, it doesn't especially stand out. Easy skill is comparable to id Hard, at the least, so is slightly misleadingly labeled as "for sight seeing". I suspect Normal has to be rather challenging, and I can't imagine what Hard and Hard+ might be like.

Shipping, documentation and user friendliness I find lacking. The mod requires a Windows only engine despite the fact that lots of good quality crossplatform ports exist. I thought Quakespasm was quite standard? Demo recording is wanted, but it is unclear to me how to record a working demo in the target engine and it's not explained either.

That would be about it. 

man people love quakespasm don't they? I have to admit that if I didn't have so many problems with DirectQ I'd probably use that as my main (the integrated map menu is absolutely awesome, I wish it was standard in other engines) RMQ is another I use often as it runs big maps at much higher frame rate than any other engine (plus it has some nice coloured lighting effects for enemy fire).
FQ and Quakespasm are pretty vanilla really in comparison, though they are very solid and stable.

I wouldn't be afraid of using QS with socks map, I played the whole thing with RMQ without noticeable issues so I can't see QS being a big problem. 

Forcing people to use a special engine to play a map. Bad.

you might want to try and at least make an argument rather than just state an unreasonable opinion. For the reasons fifthelephant has pointed out, plus the fact that glquake and software quake are buggy as hell because they werent designed for modern drivers, OS or hardware, there are engines that fix these bugs and add some useful features (including network support), only one of which is increased limits.

you have to remember, glquake was not even default, id put that out later as gfx cards started coming out, it wasnt exactly thoroughly tested or anything. 

IIRC I used Quakespasm to play Sock's last map, and couldn't record a working demo either; I was probably using a very old version of QS though, so recent ones might not have that problem.

The upside of Quakespasm is that it's basically Fitzquake, but works on Mac and Linux as well, so people can use their standard config, and it's actively maintained whereas Fitzquake 0.85 is ancient.

Quakespasm is the engine I always reach for to play custom maps, since I'm aware they are usually meant to be played in a faithful engine and QS runs under Linux so I can just download and play without any hassle.

If something required a recent build of Darkplaces (pretty rare around here), I'd be in trouble because I'd have to download that, but at least DP is crossplatform. :-)

So, I'm curious. How does one record a working demo on this map? 

gb: but pressing your point like this is unneeded really
Sorry, I didn't mean for that.

---

It sounds like I'm just behind the times, then. And that's fine; but I think then everyone needs to be ahead of the times then as well. Steam shouldn't be shipping Quake (with it's default engine port) anymore then, but rather a "modern" engine port with increased limits then. Right?

And szo should've just increased the limit to something even higher then, like 128 or 256. Why only a little increase? These days, you can't even run windows without 1gb of ram, really. The days of DOS are gone.

---

Sorry to be posting in this thread. I would create a new thread about the topic, but I recall people complaining to others for starting a new thread, saying "did you really need to start a new thread for this?" when it was fairly reasonable for him to start a new thread, but people complained about that anyways. 

I also would prefer that these requirements be upfront and clear.

If the map requires a modern engine, it should say:
REQUIREMENTS:
- Quake (modern engine) with -zone # and -heapsize # 

Here's my lesser demo: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backstein_generic.7z

It begins shortly after the skill selection map where I finally managed to grenade-jump up to the armory :)

From there, you get to see me do a lot of mousing around, rubber-necking at the awesome architecture and looking under every lift.

Other highlights include me waiting (in vain) for nails to re-spawn, accidentally hitting 'fly' during a Fiend encounter, picking the wrong weapons while under a scary Shambler attack, and getting thoroughly confused at the gold vault -- should it have been marked as a secret?

Besides that, you get to see me take advantage of some entertaining in-fighting, a spike-shooter or two -- but hardly a crusher -- and become dangerously obsessed with the trigger in the second key wind tunnel.

Thank you for the thrilling ride, Sock! You rock! 

I guess Steam cant do that because they dont own any of the modern engines and ID obviously doesnt care enough to at least fix glquake or bring it up to date for modern hardware and software.

I do agree that all requirements should be stated upfront though, not many casual players would go to readmes.

All of this is another reason for not forcing settings on players too sock :) 

gb: yeah, i was using the newest QS to record. sorry I said that but forgot to mention what version. :) 

Hey gb, your Fitzquake 0.85 demo may play back just fine using Fitz Mark V. Mine did. 

I think the demo recording across map change was added in a recent version of QS, so maybe it's time to update ;-) 

@Daz, as always the video was awesome to watch, thank you. I thought you would discuss the flanking routes like the RL/GL in the central room. The area before the crushers on the GK side with the ogre/demons facing one direction. The hard mode + is certainly tough without SNG/RL support but I would recommend trying it once!

@gb, unfortunately I don't have time to test my maps with all the different Quake engines. I recommended Fitz because it is something I use (I am windows user) but it can work with (QS/DirectQ/FTE) others as well. You are welcome to try other engines and let other people know if it works or not. Also don't feel you have to record a demo, it is totally optional if your situation is difficult.

@generic, awesome demo! :D You nearly had all the secrets and I love how you got the ogre corridor flanking route (door just before GK) :) 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backshambstein.zip 

Even though some engine ports may support demo recording and/or playback across deaths/level changes, there's an easy trick to ensure maximum compatibility. This is far better than lazily relying on external means or luck - after all, you want the author to watch your demo, do you not? Just a few steps:

0) Quicksave at key points while playing.
1) If you die (a) or exit a level (b), stop the current recording.
2a) Disconnect.
2b) Proceed to the next map and quicksave. Then disconnect.
3) Start a new recording in the console with a different name and without the map argument, e.g. record demo2.
4) Quickload. The demo will continue from here. 

It is a massive pain in the ass to do that! And I cannot count the times where I overwrote the previous demo by forgetting to use a new name.

Someone please re-summon jdhack so the his engine can finally be released for all the goodies. 

Had lots of fun playing, didn't find the layout confusing at all and thought the progression flowed very nicely. Lots of good opportunities for monster infighting and general mayhem.

Skill 3 demo, 256/256 kills, 9/10 secrets (wasn't the golden vault supposed to count as a secret? I thought for sure I would get 10/10 with it)

Also, I played with Mark V, but I don't think it presented any issues, as far as I can tell at least. 

Another way of recording demos with multiple levels - http://speeddemosarchive.com/quake/marathon.html
Yet another pain in the ass thing to do. ;)

I am itching to play this map but I haven't found the time to do so. Hopefully this evening. 

@Shambler, I was totally surprised you took the GK first and I assume that was your first run as well!?! I was expecting players would try the hard mode+ on 2nd/3rd play through. It seemed like you had a harder time with the SK side that GK. The end of the demo was unfortunate, I did not expect anyone to do that, sorry for that. Amazing demo. :)

@Berntsen, I did a couple of nightmare runs and I struggled. Awesome demo, you have crazy good Quake skills. It always amazes me how Quake players are so hardcore when playing new levels. The final secret you are missing is in the SNG trap room on the SK side. It operates the second lift which is locked. Technically the GK vault should of been a secret, but I just wanted 10 overall for the map. I love you got the ogre flanking route on the GK side and my favourite infighting was the 3 HKs killing a shambler! :P 

Ta. My demo is punishment for your principle of "the button is always hidden in view of the secret" - especially around the GA / double nail trap area :P. I did later find the first SSG secret and the silver key area secret with r_fullbright 1, and the other one only by noclipping.

I'd skimmed the readme about the GK vs SK paths and took the bait. I had great fun with the GK crushers and the Quad run. The only problem with the SK side was I got cocky as it was supposed to be the "easy" side and tried to get a big infighting party going in the RL area instead of playing normally.

The ending made me lol, I did complete it fine next go.

There isn't much to say about this map as it is excellent in all areas, especially the build quality, design style and varied and fun gameplay (and good monster traps). The only thing I didn't like so much was lack of variety in the secrets. Suffice to say I am really glad you've turned your hand to Q1 SP like this. 

I am really glad you've turned your hand to Q1 SP like this.

Yes so hard.

Time to replay this on skill 2... 

Congretulations!
Excellent Brushwork, great textures, i�m stunned. Looks very octagonish and all fits so well.
Brutal gameplay, but in an excellent way. Was nearly constantly
under pressure, but there was always room to backup.
Shame on me, i managed only skill 0, yup.

Demo

Warning, demo is played KEYBOARD ONLY, QS doesnt seem to like my hub and mouse. For the purists out there!!

I liked the secrets, especially your signature secret (SSG).
Noticed a disappearing elevator in QS, that�s the only thing i can say about this map being not awesome and brilliant;)

Thank you!