Func_Msgboard: "Toxic Quake Community" Amnesty And Apology Thread.

"Toxic Quake Community" Amnesty And Apology Thread.

Posted by Shambler on 2019/06/04 14:01:16

Warning: This is a positive resolution / solution thread, not a beef thread. You wanna beef, go elsewhere.

It has come to my attention that there are occasional accusations of the Quake community having some negative social aspects. Indeed in the words of rebb (compiler coder) in 2018:

I have known the Quake community for a very long time as one of the most toxic and narcissistic creative communities.
For a moment in time things appeared to have improved, but it turned out to be little more than naive wishful thinking.

Between all it's newfound glory, hyperdetailed maps and "god mappers" still sits the same deep prideful arrogance and highly toxic nature that has most likely been there since the very beginning.
It is a cold and self-obsessed place.

Strong words (which I personally entirely disagree with as someone who has been in the scene from Day 1, both as a player AND contributor). Unfortunately he doesn't specify what actually happened nor who he is referring to. And it's hard to have sympathy without actually understanding what's going on, and it's hard to make progress from that without having some clarity and openness.

IF there is any such "toxicity" in the Quake scene, then I think it needs to be made explicit what the problems are, who has been "toxic", and whether such behaviour is explicable, redeemable, or even simply a misunderstanding of casual behaviour, as per the wise words of Kinn (sometime mapper):

ok, here it goes - there is a lot of really obvious playful pisstaking in this community which is good.
as a man of this sceptred isle, a man of rosy-cheeked chappery and good-humoured banter, I welcome the very obvious joking around and tomfoolery
but perhaps a lot of people don't "get it" - perhaps it's down to cultural differences, or perhaps some even are "on the spectrum" as it were, and struggle to differentiate a malicious comment from an obvious mickey-take

---

This is not to start arguments or flame wars. This is to CLEAR THOSE UP by explaining what is going on discussing calmly, apologising if needed. There's no point moaning about toxicity and not trying to sort it out, so...

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Confession Time

#51 posted by Orl on 2019/06/06 20:08:48

When I made and released my one and only deathmatch map I was expecting it to be praised as one of the best ever made. Of course it was reviewed as nothing more than average, and me being the teenager I was at the time with a thin skin, threw a bitch fit. I was then promptly told I was full of shit, and rightly so. I'll never forget that.

But anyway every community has toxicity and drama, but besides a few bad apples I like to believe Quake's community is the most welcoming to newcomers. Sure you may get busted on every now and then but that's just any community right? That's not being toxic. Even if a person's first map or mod is total garbage, the majority of people here will say don't give up, keep going and you will get better. Not unlike certain members of the Doom community...

#48

#52 posted by oh, that person on 2019/06/06 20:28:24

Literally no one cares.

Interesting Posts.

#54 posted by Shambler on 2019/06/06 23:02:05

Kinn: Quite possibly.

Mclong: Thanks for posting examples, that doesn't seem like singling people out, but just giving clear examples.

For the SM thread, I think it's pretty fair to be critical of a map with no ammo, even to the extent of calling the gameplay bullshit (by negke who is far too grumpy to troll). It takes a matter of seconds to dump some ammo boxes in. The consensus seemed to be it was a valid criticism, but an anon accusing it of being a troll map was less valid.

For the RetroPEW thread, there might have been some harshness, but I stand by my criticism on the basis that the name is scientifically and objectively awful. I - amongst other people - did praise the site for the concept.

For both of these examples, yes there is some harshness, but it's not against the person, and it is for a reason.

JohnXmas - good post from an irregular participant.

Killes - eloquently put. As I've said before, having registration as a pre-requirement to harsh commentary or beef is useful for accountability, which brings me on to...

Dumptruck - firstly, you're right, this thread might be unfortunately more pointless than I hoped, if people are no longer around to air things out. Although maybe that indicates the problems they had are no longer around??

Secondly, that is an interesting example. There is beef between OTP and Muk....plenty of know this and shrug it off, it's just two fluffly little things kicking their wee paws at each other again. It's self-contained interpersonal beef. BUT....is this off-putting in general?? Is it toxic in general?? I don't know. Maybe a bit if people don't know that it's just a couple of people beefing away (a familiar part of ANY community).

Kinn - also a conclusive argument.

Orl - there is a certain amount of rigorousness here, but then again that does partly encourage quality and progress (and it's usually combined with encouragement).

OTP - wheesht.

Func Is Fine

#55 posted by allcaps on 2019/06/06 23:11:14

I've spoken up here a few times in the programming help thread asking for help with what in retrospect was pretty obvious shit that's covered by the multitude of quake spec docs floating around. I still got multiple people each time answering my questions and helping me understand things I wasn't sure of.

The same for the quake mapping discord. I took part in the dm4 map jam, and my map was kind of shit, but whenever I asked a question or showed screens I got honest feedback that was no more harsh or pointed than warranted.

Place is fine.

Real Talk.

#56 posted by oh, that person on 2019/06/08 10:59:43

Not too long ago, acting like a xenophobic fuckhead in #terrafusion would have gotten you politely disinvited from func and ongoing events.

In 2019, calling out xenophobic fuckheads gets your post deleted for being "Unnecessarily off-topic and hostile"?

Shambler, maybe the first proper step in addressing the "toxic community" question would be to actually confront the bigotry, instead of shoving it under the carpet. But apparently you prefer to make big sweeping statements about not tolerating fringe behavior, and then chose to not act on them when necessary.

Thanks For Pointing That Out OTP.

#57 posted by Shambler on 2019/06/08 12:27:25

If you highlight current xxx-phobias in areas where I can moderate them, then I will be sure to confront that and act on it when necessary.

Bump, Nice Try Spammers

#58 posted by anonymous user on 2019/06/10 01:38:46

Take It To The Stasi

#59 posted by ww on 2019/06/11 02:59:11

Thank god otp has no moderation power in this community, otherwise he'd likely be the only person left posting.
You've been trying to get me banned/kicked out for months with screencaps and quotes of my offences. That it hasn't worked and people don't give a fuck about anything you say is quite the comfy feeling.

Namaste

#60 posted by Drew on 2019/06/11 03:09:29

Need Something To Get Off Your Chest Drew?

#61 posted by oh, that person on 2019/06/11 06:41:32

Btw

#62 posted by Shambler on 2019/06/11 10:12:05

If anyone notices people raising concerns in other areas, i.e. reddit etc, please direct them to this thread so stuff can be cleared up. Thanks.

It's Quite A Funny

#63 posted by spy on 2019/06/11 16:49:23

on one hand
eddie the shambler welcomes the newbies with a shittalking, posting and asking for a pooping vids, and he believes it's ok (tf discord)

on the other hand
shitposting spy

and after all that two faced son of a gun is asking for retribution for spy

Just Lock This Thread Already

#70 posted by dumptruck_ds on 2019/06/11 21:10:11

pointless and off topic

I Don't Think So.

#71 posted by Shambler on 2019/06/11 21:34:13

Some very useful contributions and discussions. Just because one perma-troll is abusing it like he does to the rest of func doesn't negate the purpose.

11 posts not shown on this page because they were spam

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