What engine do you use? 

It is not like this release requires a whole new, only for this map, engine. Fitzquake and by extension (with limitations) Quakespasm are considered the standard engine for new map releases. 

Please define 'non-standart'???? One can only take id's original ones as 'standart' and *nothing* else.

The mod's own readme file recommends using the -heapsize argument, which I believe by your 'standarts', makes him to recommend 'non-standart' engines?

(and why do I bother anyway...) 

Even back when there were no engines other than id's engines, some mods and maps and scripts required command-line arguments to run. It seems counterproductive to complain about sourceports upping their internal limits to make such things no longer necessary. We're long past the point where it is useful to measure out memory in megabytes. 

Always complain about free stuff.

I am playing this by the way, and will post some demos soon. 

Er, deqer, cut Sock some slack... if you don't like "nonstandard" stuff, don't play it.

Don't tell artists what they can and can't do, pretty much. If you don't like the result, feel free to ignore it or make one cohesive post with your criticism, but pressing your point like this is unneeded really. I usually post my criticism and then the artist can take it or leave it, it's not like the world depends on it.

I vaguely plan to play this, too, but last time my demo stopped recording after the skill selection thingy and I'm not familiar with the arcane art of Quake demos. Can someone tell me how I can record a demo of the entire thing, assuming there is again the skill selection thing to overcome? 

where I basicly fondle the map's private parts :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nacZqO8Zd10 

I'm not sure but I haven't be doing any of the demo recording tricks to prevent recording problems and no one has complained, so it looks like that has been silently fixed at some point?? 

'some mods' ... 'required command-line arguments'.
some? really? surely you mean all... :P 

okay, then I'll try it with Fitz085. 

no-one should really be using the original engines anymore and here is why -

* They are poorly optimised for todays hardware
* They don't properly support modern screen resolutions
* They are graphically inferior (seriously, 8bit lighting on software quake is hideous and GLQuake doesn't support brightmapping or gamma controls)
* They don't have proper netquake support
* They have way less useful features, (like listing all the maps, pausing/rewinding/fastforward demos, debugging)

Fitzquake and Quakespasm are the de-facto engines of choice for Quake purists, they're very faithful to the original game whilst having lovely background features that in no way hinder or ruin the original game experience.

Anyone sticking with the original executables that shipped with the game are making their own lives intentionally more difficult! 

I just used QuakeSpasm to record my demo, and there were no problems with the map change. 

With Fitzquake 0.85, the demo didn't continue recording or rather playing after the load screen. :-/

Why is it even necessary to include an extra load screen in a singleplayer map (ie why does it have to come in 2 parts)? That just complicates demo recording for casual Quake players, if they even figure it out in the first place.

This happened in your last map as well, Sock. Thus I'm sorry, I do try to record demos, it just never works.

Feedback:

I had to install Quake under Windows to play this mod (I normally use FTE or Quakespasm under Ubuntu), since the readme explicitly requires Fitzquake 0.85, which is windows-only. This required 2 reboots because I forgot to copy over a file the first time. It also required messing around with settings and an autoexec.cfg to get standard WASD controls back, plus getting my mouse setup to be inverted and have +jump on mouse2. I don't know if Fitzquake 0.85 has any way to save a config from within the engine (as FTE can), at least I didn't see anything like it. So I wrote an autoexec.cfg file in Notepad. Yay.

Then ingame, I had mouse sensitivity problems; the mouse feels rather different in Fitzquake 0.85 compared to what I normally use. Small annoyance, but it was playable. Had to pause and tweak sensitivity a few times though, which probably didn't help the immersion.

I played on Easy, and it turned out that was a good decision because it was more comparable to id Hard. Still doable for me, though, since I do play shooters regularly, but I'm not sure if this was really a "sightseeing" difficulty as the readme claims. People who don't usually play shooters might still have problems. I died in the gold key part of the map, in a room where I was suddenly rushed by a lot of monsters. I blew myself up with the RL after I was already in red health after trying and failing to dodge the knight horde; IMO there wasn't enough room to dodge, but I might also suck at Quake.

There was otherwise enough health and ammo, so no complaints there. It was nice to get the shaft relatively early.

The map is expertly constructed, the brushwork and texturing are top notch, the fog is tasteful and the lighting felt adequate, so yeah, this didn't disappoint build quality wise. It's a Sock map after all.

The gameplay felt like solidly executed, bog-standard Quake. I believe that was the intention - if it was, then you nailed it.

The routing through the map was adequate, like being dropped right at the silver key door after getting the key and other details like that. This is commendable; well done.

Verdict:

Build quality, visuals and routing are top notch.

Gameplay is adequate, but because it tries to nail the standard Quake feel, it doesn't especially stand out. Easy skill is comparable to id Hard, at the least, so is slightly misleadingly labeled as "for sight seeing". I suspect Normal has to be rather challenging, and I can't imagine what Hard and Hard+ might be like.

Shipping, documentation and user friendliness I find lacking. The mod requires a Windows only engine despite the fact that lots of good quality crossplatform ports exist. I thought Quakespasm was quite standard? Demo recording is wanted, but it is unclear to me how to record a working demo in the target engine and it's not explained either.

That would be about it. 

man people love quakespasm don't they? I have to admit that if I didn't have so many problems with DirectQ I'd probably use that as my main (the integrated map menu is absolutely awesome, I wish it was standard in other engines) RMQ is another I use often as it runs big maps at much higher frame rate than any other engine (plus it has some nice coloured lighting effects for enemy fire).
FQ and Quakespasm are pretty vanilla really in comparison, though they are very solid and stable.

I wouldn't be afraid of using QS with socks map, I played the whole thing with RMQ without noticeable issues so I can't see QS being a big problem. 

Forcing people to use a special engine to play a map. Bad.

you might want to try and at least make an argument rather than just state an unreasonable opinion. For the reasons fifthelephant has pointed out, plus the fact that glquake and software quake are buggy as hell because they werent designed for modern drivers, OS or hardware, there are engines that fix these bugs and add some useful features (including network support), only one of which is increased limits.

you have to remember, glquake was not even default, id put that out later as gfx cards started coming out, it wasnt exactly thoroughly tested or anything. 

IIRC I used Quakespasm to play Sock's last map, and couldn't record a working demo either; I was probably using a very old version of QS though, so recent ones might not have that problem.

The upside of Quakespasm is that it's basically Fitzquake, but works on Mac and Linux as well, so people can use their standard config, and it's actively maintained whereas Fitzquake 0.85 is ancient.

Quakespasm is the engine I always reach for to play custom maps, since I'm aware they are usually meant to be played in a faithful engine and QS runs under Linux so I can just download and play without any hassle.

If something required a recent build of Darkplaces (pretty rare around here), I'd be in trouble because I'd have to download that, but at least DP is crossplatform. :-)

So, I'm curious. How does one record a working demo on this map? 

gb: but pressing your point like this is unneeded really
Sorry, I didn't mean for that.

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It sounds like I'm just behind the times, then. And that's fine; but I think then everyone needs to be ahead of the times then as well. Steam shouldn't be shipping Quake (with it's default engine port) anymore then, but rather a "modern" engine port with increased limits then. Right?

And szo should've just increased the limit to something even higher then, like 128 or 256. Why only a little increase? These days, you can't even run windows without 1gb of ram, really. The days of DOS are gone.

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Sorry to be posting in this thread. I would create a new thread about the topic, but I recall people complaining to others for starting a new thread, saying "did you really need to start a new thread for this?" when it was fairly reasonable for him to start a new thread, but people complained about that anyways. 

I also would prefer that these requirements be upfront and clear.

If the map requires a modern engine, it should say:
REQUIREMENTS:
- Quake (modern engine) with -zone # and -heapsize # 

Here's my lesser demo: http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backstein_generic.7z

It begins shortly after the skill selection map where I finally managed to grenade-jump up to the armory :)

From there, you get to see me do a lot of mousing around, rubber-necking at the awesome architecture and looking under every lift.

Other highlights include me waiting (in vain) for nails to re-spawn, accidentally hitting 'fly' during a Fiend encounter, picking the wrong weapons while under a scary Shambler attack, and getting thoroughly confused at the gold vault -- should it have been marked as a secret?

Besides that, you get to see me take advantage of some entertaining in-fighting, a spike-shooter or two -- but hardly a crusher -- and become dangerously obsessed with the trigger in the second key wind tunnel.

Thank you for the thrilling ride, Sock! You rock! 

I guess Steam cant do that because they dont own any of the modern engines and ID obviously doesnt care enough to at least fix glquake or bring it up to date for modern hardware and software.

I do agree that all requirements should be stated upfront though, not many casual players would go to readmes.

All of this is another reason for not forcing settings on players too sock :) 

gb: yeah, i was using the newest QS to record. sorry I said that but forgot to mention what version. :) 

Hey gb, your Fitzquake 0.85 demo may play back just fine using Fitz Mark V. Mine did. 

I think the demo recording across map change was added in a recent version of QS, so maybe it's time to update ;-) 

@Daz, as always the video was awesome to watch, thank you. I thought you would discuss the flanking routes like the RL/GL in the central room. The area before the crushers on the GK side with the ogre/demons facing one direction. The hard mode + is certainly tough without SNG/RL support but I would recommend trying it once!

@gb, unfortunately I don't have time to test my maps with all the different Quake engines. I recommended Fitz because it is something I use (I am windows user) but it can work with (QS/DirectQ/FTE) others as well. You are welcome to try other engines and let other people know if it works or not. Also don't feel you have to record a demo, it is totally optional if your situation is difficult.

@generic, awesome demo! :D You nearly had all the secrets and I love how you got the ogre corridor flanking route (door just before GK) :) 

http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/demos/backshambstein.zip