It's clearly derived from it.

"any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is _derived_ from the Program or any part thereof"

This is clearly the case, it's even admitted.

And in the Travail readme, there's this:

"Some of the stuff used herein is available via GPL, go forth and seek it out"

which in and of itself is a GPL violation because if you include GPL licensed "stuff" in your work (which the readme clearly admits) then the whole work must again be GPL licensed.

Nothing can just be "available" under the GPL; it is _licensed_ under the GPL and that automatically has the implications listed above.

:-/ 

Calm down please... I was joking about the fact it take too much time to read the full license agreement.. I guess everybody does the same as me: accept without reading... don't be nervous, it was not against you at all ;) 

No offense taken. 

So it's fine... ;) 

Just because it contains GPL content doesn't necessarily mean the whole thing has to be GPL. There is a distinction between "this mod includes content available under GPL" and "this mod includes content licenced under GPL". For instance, I could make a map, release the source under GPL, and also give permission for the map to be used in a pack under different terms. Then the pack would not need to be GPL, because at no point has the licence been invoked. A another example would be deathmatch classic, that horrible half-life mod. Even though the maps that are included(of which DM2 happens to be one...) are now GPL, valve doesn't have to make half-life, or even just DMC, a GPL product, because they already licenced such content when they bought the quake source.

Secondly, the dm2 parts are derived from the map, rather than the source. Derived is a tricky word, but there's a clear case here to be made that it would not have been necessary to see the source of the map to create what was in this level. If this is the case then the GPL is not violated just by building such a map, in the same way that none of the quake 3 remakes of quake 1 deathmatch maps suddenly became GPL when the sources were released.

There is of course the side issue of whether copying the layout/brushwork of a map just by eye is a violation of copyright, but that would be separate to any GPL considerations.

I'd like to add finally that I don't personally know which bits of the mod the comment you quoted refers to, you may be right that the mod does violate GPL if alternative permissions weren't sought. However, your claims above aren't right, so maybe it'd be best to follow up these things in private with the team 

The DM map sources have been available FOR ages! At least 8 years.

ftp://ftp.mancubus.net/pub/idgames2/levels/editing_examples/

This is why there have been rocket arena maps like id3.bsp, DM maps that are variations of the originals like the TDM (e4m3t3m, etc.) series since the 1990's and that map that was every DM map called death32c.bsp 

Seriously - I doubt anyone is going to be sued for this infraction (weather it exists or not).

More comments on the mod's gameplay / aesthetics. 

Override the 'fair usage' doctrine of the law either, where snippets, quotes and short imitations of works are used in artistic, sometimes parodying manners. Unfortunately a lot of those who write up licensing contracts are ignorant of what would actually stand up in a court of law.

Unfortunately, given the abuse of fair usage doctrine in those clauses you cite, the GPL as it stands is likely to prove useless in the long run for the purpose of an enforceable contract. 

as Ijed is right that it destracts from the pack.

I see GPL matters get argued in many forums where a ton of clauses from the license are cited, but the citation of those clauses are only relevant to the degree that they are in accord with this:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html

subsection

� 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38

And yes, it is backed by international agreements that gives it standing in most natiomns where funcsters reside. 

really.
like it. the new physics with the monsters are a bit weird first, but go well after a while.
Level-Design is different, but very clever and Entertaining.
Havent been able to find all the secrets of the first episode yet, but still working on it.
Nice one ! 

I don't want any personal feuds about this. I was just saying.

I really just want people to think about the GPL because it is the basis of free software, and of Quake. If you use Quake, the GPL affects you.

I myself am known to act up against "idiotic" rules often. However, the GPL is actually a GOOD rule. The FSF are the good guys, so it's a bit stupid to bash the GPL of all things. The GPL gave us the Quake source, the tools source and the map sources.

Maybe there are juristic ways to pull your head out of the noose where the GPL is concerned. The question is, why let it come to that?

It would simply be _wise_ to release your map under the GPL wherever you "cite" or "reference" any GPL maps (ahem.) Not to mention that it's also _cool_.

It's sad that many ppl are so quick to bash the GPL and the FSF. I think those people are confusing the good and the bad guys.

The good guys, i.e. the Free Software movement with their GPL, need your help, not your ignorance. This is a political thing. You may get away with just taking what you want (by using the loopholes several of you pointed out above), but that doesn't mean it is wise to do so. And you know damn well I have a point here.

Since the majority here is unlikely to even grasp the problem (and just wants me to shut up now), I'll close the case.

golden_boy. 

Yeah, we're generally pretty dim around here. You might try using smaller words, or typing more slowly. 

cant say I was overly enamoured with the final boss combat, but the mapping in the boss levels was still great.

also cheated to negke's levels using the map command because I couldnt find the entrance. Great maps both, really do deserve to be played and not just stumbled upon as a secret. The cave level is brilliant. 

Hello Travail:
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/daily_usage_200707.png

Made some happy 80 Gigabyte traffic so far. That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip (only "330" for the soundtrack though). So, who says there is no interest in Quake Singleplayer nowadays? 

Thats Good.

Reckon the interest in this archaic game will take a long time to die; consumers don't want to spend $400 on a graphics card every six months.

Plus its one of the best games of all time.

First impressions on the pack:

Nicely detailed, but some clip brushes would have helped here and there - I haven't got stuck but I'm wary of the possibility. I prefer to be killed by dangerous things.

There's a nice sense of exploration; it feels like you're really moving through this alien landscape, and not just playing a map. Sometimes this confuses the progression, but nothing more than twenty seconds of legging about.

It would have been nice to have some more meaty weapons earlier on. It didn't stop the flow but I prefer more hardcore slaughter. A GL before the SSG / NG wouldn't have disrupted progression much and would have made some entertaining gib fountains from the grunts and funny player-suicides in the occassional compact spaces.

Played through engineer of destruction so far. 

That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip (only "330" for the soundtrack though). So, who says there is no interest in Quake Singleplayer nowadays?

nice! how many sites did the link get posted on? and what were they.. for future reference :p 

quite ok overall.. although it had its share of good & bad moments.


the first episode i found particularly frustrating gameplay wise. there were quite a few situations where combats would be badly set up, or the player not given sufficient cover or movement space. in terms of design, the outdoor areas were excellent (including the caverns in maps 4 & 5) but some of the indoor sections felt a little pokey & fiddly. the texturing in the first three maps felt a little dull & slightly outdated too, especially compared with the rest of the pack


episode 2 i enjoyed ALOT more.. it was tough, but rarely in a frustrating way, since the combats felt like they were engineered better & player movement wasn't so restricted. i particularly loved the first map.. superb theme, solid, sturdy designs, and as mentioned by nitin the spider section was excellent & proved very tense. there was one point in map 2 where i had to cheat (got the SK, turned left out the door & went back into the dm2 bit to hunt for health, ended up getting stuck in there) and i could have done without the chthon bit at the end, felt a little old & predictable!


the last three maps were all pretty neat but i didn't really get much of a sense of flow between them. and the end boss fight was bizarre.. whenever the fight started heating up he'd give up & hide under his wing for ages (the second time he did this i got bored waiting & ran up close to him with impulse 255 on to finish him off). seemed a bit of a pointless feature imo, would have been a pretty solid fight if it weren't for that.

overall i guess it wasn't as strong as say, nehahra or soul of evil, but it had some pretty memorable moments. not given the dm maps a blast yet but shall endevour to do so later :) 

Oh, you changed the way the secret exit is accessed the last minute? I'm not sure if it's really less confusing now.

So people, better check your short term memory. ;) 

I especially like the map with the dam 

Beginning to wish I never mentioned the DM2 part.. (although I think two of us did) what with all the GPL shenanigans :/

But some cheap pimpage for our Belgian friend Polarite (Beast) who was kind enough to slap the pack on one of his servers -
flanders.servegame.org - port 26002

Although I got a connect error after the start map I know it works for others.

Sir H 

That's almost 1000 downloads for the travail.zip

Looking forward to playing it soon. 

Spirit: Thanks for the stats!

All: comment has been diverse but generally express enjoyment, vive la differance.

nitin: given how much I've come to respect your opinion, your comments are greatly appreciated. The brick texture is from q3test btw, it's one of the few that looks like it shouldn't be part of the Q3 set :) As for neg!ke's secret mini mission, it started out as a single additional level then grew so big it had to be split into two levels, both of which grew to the point where they started choking the engine. The man's a machine! Anyhoo, they're secret, and as such some work (memory in this case) should be required by the player to access them. The payoff is well worth the effort, as you pointed out. Besides, in two weeks the secrets and Easter Eggs will be common knowledge, and very few will miss the opportunity to play neg's awesome cavern level.

Sir H: the team is very proud to have brought you out of lurker mode. I'm glad someone got poisoned by the Archenids :) I was beginning to wonder if they'd lost the ability.

rj: sorry you didn't find it as coherent as we thought we'd achieved, but I'm glad you enjoyed things overall. I thought I'd sorted that return to the interior problem in qte2m2. Heh, even with long and careful testing something or two will slip through. Can I put you on the list for beta tester on the next project?

ijed: looking forward to you comments on the rest of it.

golden_boy: if you believe inadequate consideration was given to GPL by the Travail team then you assume too much. The various release dates associated with it and the longevity of Quake's appeal has made it, in quite a few instances, an anomoly with respect to GPL. This doesn't mean GPL is bad, just hard to apply in some instances (and in twenty years time these instances will be almost non-existant). In the meantime we appeal, as HeadThump politely pointed out, to common sense in the form of common law. If you wish to discuss the process and reasoning whereby my final approach to GPL was reached in this instance, please do not hesitate to contact me at quake -dot- travail -at- gmail -dot- com 

Can I put you on the list for beta tester on the next project?

sure! whenever it's ready just post a note in the beta thread & i'll contact you. is there one in progress at the moment?

also, in response to another part of your post, i too got a poinsoning from the archenids. i'd say that section was actually my favourite part of the whole game; i loved how the medkits were spread out so that you had to use them wisely, coupled with the panic factor of the screen turning red if you got bitten. i also managed to use up all my ammo on that section & had to fend the last one off with the axe, which was awesome :) (my fault as i missed the GL completely until seeing it in the intermission, d'oh) 

...you beat the level without the GL. I doff my hat!

As to 'in progress', I've a level about 75% done. It follows directly from "Recurrent Rumours," the first prequel to Travail. 

finaly finish playing travail!!!

great pack!

first episode is classic quake, not to hard on hard, was real real fun enjoy it a lot not so good like second episode but is normal becouse of textures quality but gameplay was perfect and fun.

second episode is more detailed and more new quake stile of maps with pretty textures that map maps much better, neg|ke and distrans made real great job on that episode.

final levels

love all great job love the red ciborgs :) made me run all over that basement :) the Azoth was fucking evil!!! both levels with him were great and the gameplay on hard was just perfect.

good work guys.. sorry my feedback but you guys already know that i suck in english :\

i will replay it again next week ;) must beta test a map this week before someone kill me ;)

thks guys!!! enjoi it a lot, will play again for sure.