Custom GUI stuff has been criminally missing from Quake since forever, and I think it has stifled mod creativity.

CSQC in Quakespasm.

RMQ engine did that years ago and was actually based on QS. *cough* Spike did it separately as well, IIRC. It has technically been done for years, it's just that the community didn't really want it. Also, mods like Hellsmash definitely had custom GUIs. So does Brood Hunter. So did Scout's Journey when it still ran on the Quake engine. It had a friggin' drag and drop inventory (other mods did as well). Various mods by gnounc were all about custom HUDs. It's been possible for years, it has just been stifled by being "uncool".

There is even a cleancsqc source kicking around, also years old. https://gitlab.com/gnounc/cleanQC_merged

This thread is really funny to read. Suddenly you guys want volumetric fog, reflections, lightmapped water, custom GUIs, particles and all models remade. But Darkplaces etc. are still the Grand Evil. It all has to be crammed into Quakespasm instead of simply using a more capable engine. It seems the requests for features develop at the same pace as certain regulars' tastes (slowly).

Q3map2

I suggested switching fully to an extended (lightstyles...) Quake 3 map format, shaders and IQM models for PCs five or six years ago to the rest of the RMQ team and people looked at me like I was mad. It was mostly that mappers were unwilling to give up using Worldcraft (can you imagine that in 2017?). Instead we got BSP2, which is a hack, and lots of q3map2-like functionality (AO...)crammed into tyrutils lately.

It's really funny to watch.

These particles you always complain about in darkplaces could be fixed in a weekend if someone made a faithful particlefont.tga for the engine. That could have been done 10 years ago.

The cruddy SW-style lighting has been in FTE for years as well. AFAIK FTE got an entire "faithful preset" a couple years ago, even. Why all these things are slowly rotting instead of being used by the community, I fail to grasp. It really must be a comfort zone limitation. Or a pissing circle one.

You got a faithful looking engine with good Q3 shader support, RBSP/FBSP support, CSQC, and Quakeworld support, plus heightmap terrain and shadowless rtlights that don't impact performance too much, custom GLSL support even, and last I heard most of the bugs had been fixed, so what the HELL are you waiting for?

Does it have to do the dishes as well? (Spike probably has that prototyped already.) 

Fewer huge, but irregular ejaculations of maps and a more balanced stream of output through the year. Jams are great but somewhere down the line they turned from short "turtle mapping 2.0" sessions into gruelling, multi-month mapping marathons. I'd prefer to have 4 jams with 4 entries each than 1 jam with 16 entries.

Less perfectionism, more releases. Who really cares if a map is rough around the edges. Polish is important but it's become a bottleneck. We could have hit 200 maps this year if it hadn't been for perfectionism.

Less hubisodes, more episodes, playable from beginning to end. Either community episodes or solo ventures.

Conversely to scar3crow, I want more PCs. (Partial conversions, not personal computers, or more of the PC police that bullied skacky away.) Quake hasn't had its own Back to Saturn X or Valiant yet.

More Quoth content. Quoth maps, or Quoth features jumbled into custom mods. I think jam 9 showed that the old friend still has some juice left.

More True Color maps. I don't mean hi-res bullshit, I mean recolored external textures (ne_marb, sm179_otp). There are so many colors that have been barely brushed in Quake.

Some sort of reinvention of the QExpo. qbism was right that the booth/exhibiton format has gone past its expiration date, but some sort of cross-community, content driven event should be a Thing.

New maps from muk, ionous, negke, ijed (ok, too unrealistic), Kell, G1ftmacher, Bloodshot, Nait, and the QUMP team.

New maps from people whom we haven't even met yet.

More banter from Shambler.

Quakespasm 1.0. 

Suddenly you guys want volumetric fog, reflections, lightmapped water, custom GUIs, particles and all models remade.

TBH, I, and probably a considerable number of others, don't. 

Broken record, but I want our #tf discord emotes as func post icons. 

FWIW, personally I don't want a bunch of special effects and whatnot.

On the tech side of things, usability is the biggest hurdle for new (or returning) players. Most of the Quake engines don't have a Maps selection menu or a Mods menu. And actually just the proliferation of different engines and forks-of-engines is a stumbling block as well. No ill will from me toward anyone who wants to putter around on their own personal project, but from a player's perspective the gaggle of all-somewhat-different engines is just a pain in the ass.

On the content side, like Shambler above I'd love to see more medium-scale cleverly-assembled maps. Also connecting a set of maps into a simple thematic and/or gameplay progression is neat. (Really interested to see how the episode jam handles this.)

Of course anyone who makes stuff for this weird old game deserves a pat on the back regardless of whether they cater to my tastes or not! Just throwing in my 2 cents since the thread explicitly asks. 

Actually, take each person individually and they're only asking for a small number of things. It's just everyone has a different wishlist.

I get your point about Darkplaces and FTE already having a lot of this stuff, but I think the unwritten (or in many cases written) rule here is that if it don't work in Quakespasm, it's probably not going to be played by the func crowd.

Personally, just 16-bit verts in models and custom HUD and I'm good to go. Different strokes for different folks.

For example I wouldn't request flashy eyecandy with reflections and shiny shaders. 

I wouldn't know what to do with fancy shaders to be fair.

I just want to play Quake using Quakespasm or Mark_V on the couch in DM when I am hosting guests (which is often enough that I'd play it almost every week).

The upshoot of this is that I'd be making more co-op friendly maps and deathmatch levels. 

Unless or until someone makes the original hud inside CSQC as a base...AND Quakespasm gets CSQC support, CSQC isn't that useful. Also, Darkplaces doesn't have twisty water so it does not count as a legitimate engine as it does not have all of the most utterly basic features. Also, we DO NOT want HD shinovision effects like Darkplaces. We want subtle improvements that align with Quakiness such as AD does. I don't really care to have reflections. 16bit fog would be nice.

I'll add another couple desires:
Square particles for Darkplaces.
Twisty water for Darkplaces.
Fence texture support for Darkplaces and FTE.
Fence texture support on models in Darkplaces and FTE.
Merge MarkV features and Quakespasm and Retroquad into one highly cuatomizable QUAKE (2018) engine.

(Ok this last list is unrealistic) 

To be clear, I want more FANCY EFFECTS, but only introduced carefully and subtly as many of the current good ones have been. 

Also, we DO NOT want HD shinovision effects like Darkplaces.

The eye-melting ass you're referring to is wrongfully attributed to Darkplaces. The blame belongs to the artist who misused the engine's capabilities. This would be the case with any engine. Darkplaces has the capability to look exactly like quakespasm, too.

Square particles for Darkplaces.

a quick edit of effectinfo.txt and particlefont.tga will get you this.

Twisty water for Darkplaces.

a quick shader referencing the water texture with tcMod turb will get you this as well (or something comparable). Same deal with fence textures.

I'm not trying to jump up your ass, I just wanted to correct some misinformation :D 

Quake isn't bright enough for anything to reflect. 

Darkplaces has the capability to look exactly like quakespasm, too.

Don't be daft. Quake engines shouldn't need user-made particle fonts or shaders to look like Quake. 

Quake engines shouldn't need user-made particle fonts or shaders to look like Quake.

I agree with that 100%. Darkplaces should look vanilla out of the box (still puzzled as to why it doesn't). Fortunately, that vanilla look is five minutes of tweaking away. The 'misinformation' that I was referring to was that Darklpaces inherently looks like this. 

would you be interested in making a package consisting of the necessary config settings, modified particle.tga files etc. etc. that people can just download to have DP up and running in a non-eye-rapingly-offensive way? 

because looking at effectinfo.txt - that is not a 5 minute fix unless you know exactly what you are doing, and the casual player most certainly will not. 

good idea, putting that on my list. I just did a little test and it turns out I was wrong, you don't need to touch effectinfo.txt. Just drop an any color/size image called particlefont.tga (i used 4x4, black) into id1/particles. However, I would mess around with effectinfo just to get it a little more "quakey". 

 

Cheers killpixel, yeah a "DP-no-ass" package that can be slapped in the title post of the engines thread would be pretty useful.

Out of interest does DP run ad_sepulcher? Last I checked DP hasn't been updated since 2014 :p 

DP has had development since then and has automated builds posted to https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/files/?C=M;O=D

(doubt it can do sepulcher tho)

For me, because DP also changes some behaviors of lighting and physics, it doesn't seem worth fiddling with for "normal" Quake stuff (i.e. not taking advantage of DP-specific features). 

@Kinn - DP-no-ass. I imagine that would be painful. But yeah, I would have liked such a mod before QS came around.

@Johnny Law - Yeah, same here. MarkV and Quakespasm fulfill my quake needs.

anyway, I won't clutter this thread with DP related suff anymore (apologies). 

DP has had development since then

Good to know. The latest Windows 10 update has completely trashed mouse input in the 2014 DP build (same way it trashed mouse input in earlier versions of QS, but the latest QS has that fixed), so if the latest DP has fixed that, that's welcome.

But yeah, as a player, I can't really think of a reason why I should use anything other than Quakespasm. It feels right, it looks right, has proper controller support, and runs cooler on my laptop than any other engine by far - seriously, the fan doesn't even come on ever with QS, whereas it's blowing like a jet engine with every other engine I've tried - what's with that? 

- A digs map.
- Release one or two maps myself.
- Halo Forerunner-themed mapjam
- Silent Hill Otherworld-themed mapjam
- uhhhh.... 

More solo releases. From myself or others.

Shorter jams with stronger themes(not that theyve been lacking lately). More than "use this texture set"

Id love to see people talk more openly about their design process. I included a changelog in my xmasjam entry and this is something Ill continue to do and then some. 

Isn't the other issue people have with using DP the fact that it's pretty incompatible? Like, aren't there a bunch of cvars you need to change to get it to behave sorta like regular Quake, physics wise?

Something I want to do in 2018 is release a map that I'm proud of the gameplay for, and not just the visuals. Preferably as a solo release. 

An improved model format. I don't want fancy features, just better (preferably floating point) accuracy on both vertices and texture coords. Normals can be easily reconstructed if needed (the original code in modelgen.c is a good base to work from).

What I'm talking about here is the equivalent of a BSP2 for MDLs. BSP2 had no fancy-dan features meaning it was easy to implement, meaning it actually *was* implemented, meaning it succeeded. Adding extra features - "can we have skeletal animation/multipart models/detachable limbs/32-bit skins/etc" - just increases the complexity of implementing. There are already plenty other formats that support those features - go implement one of those instead. What I'm talking about is a format that does what MDL does, does no more than what MDL does, but with better accuracy and raised limits.