Apart from the nice GUI, SVN has all of what you mentioned above. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm just saying that most of the complaints you have seem to be because of lacking tool support. I agree that this is a huge problem with Subversion. The recent Mac clients I mentioned earlier have improved the situation somewhat, but they're still far from optimal. The only decent SVN client I know is the Subclipse plugin for the Eclipse IDE with its Synchronize View.

Obvsiously, the command line allows you to do everything, and I sometimes use it as well, but it's just not convenient. I don't know how one should remember all those options and switches that the svn command understands... I certainly can't. 

I've been using "Versions" and it seems be pretty good. 

sudden honor-driven defense of demo-driven sales methods

smiling is when the corners of your mouth go up and you feel amused 

Oh you were joking. OK then. 

Try Cornerstone - I find it to be better.

http://www.zennaware.com/cornerstone/ 

git, bzr, hg, even darcs -- all work ok on OS X. But the tool support is even ropier for them, of course. Never used a commercial VCS. Apart from Visual Source Safe -- which was possibly even worse than just copying files around :) 

Don't mention SourceSafe when talking about source control systems. It's like bringing up ground chuck in a discussion about steak. 

I finally got fed up with QuArK and decided to try ToeTag. It's great for me since I use Macs, but I usually do gaming in Windows so I thought I would try to get ToeTag working with GNUstep on Windows.

Just got the OpenGL views working today, so it can display maps!
http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/edog17/?action=view&current=toetag.png

There are still piles of bugs (mostly in GNUstep) to fix - mouse/keyboard events aren't working properly so you can't edit anything. However, I'm hoping it will be a reasonable project to finish. :-) 

 

Is mapping with ToeTag similar to mapping with QuArK because QuArK is the only editor that I understand how to use (yes I've tried others and i couldn't even build a room), it's like a really simplified Computer Aided Drafting program. :o 

 

Hmm, that sounds great ericw!

Obviously also cool of willem to release the source and write it in the first place *g* 

That is amazingly cool, eric! Let me know if you have questions or whatever. Happy to help! 

Does ToeTag have show .mdl in the 3d view functionality? 

Yes. 

 

Huh, I just did some googling and I didn't know there was a way to compile Objective-C on Windows. That's awesome! GnuStep sounds cool. 

Willem:
Awesome, thanks. I saw on your blog were working on input refactoring and moving the texture browser to a new window - could I grab that code from you, or should I stick with porting ToeTag 2.30?

The main change I had to make to the ToeTag source was changing foreach() loops to a macro. This sucks, but GNUstep doesn't fully support Objective-C 2.0 features yet (well, in theory it does, but no one has gotten that working on Windows yet). The other problem is garbage collection is also not supported (yet), so I'll have to add retain/release/autorelease where needed. I haven't tackled that yet, but it shouldn't be too bad. So ideally if this works out, we can merge my changes into the main ToeTag code (or a Subversion branch or something).

I fixed a few more GNUstep bugs yesterday. Resizing the OpenGL views works now, and mouse events work so you can select stuff. There's something wrong with the control/alt keys so you can't do much editing yet.. but it's coming along really well :-)

meTch:
Yeah, it was the same for me. I found QuArK was really easy to learn because selection and manipulating brushes works a lot like other Windows apps (Powerpoint, Flash, etc.) I haven't used ToeTag a whole lot, but it does use modifier keys more than QuArK. I think it will be pretty easy to use once you learn them. 

ericw

Well, here's the thing. :) I have a new version of ToeTag (that I renamed to LevelEd) which is way cooler but it's not ready for release. It's close but I don't think I'll ever get around to finishing it.

It's got nice support for multiple WAD files, a floating texture browser, and other cool stuff.

I can send you a copy of that source code and you can see if you can work with it if you'd like. Send your email address to me and I'll hook you up (probably won't be until after the weekend though as I'm going out of town on Thur). 

Oh, it also has a decent set up for multiple control schemes in it - the default one has changed to mirror UnrealEd, though, since I work with that editor every day. :) 

My address is ewasylishen at gmail.com 

Hey, you know what, I lied. :) I had a few moments here when I got home so...

http://wantonhubris.com/ToeTagSrc/LevelEd_Src.zip

Hopefully that will be usable for you. It's got a common library of code and some other stuff now so have at it and see what you think. This code base is way better than the original although, unfortunately, not entire complete or bug free.

This was my start to a complete Quake editing suite which is why you see projects in there for WADEd, SpriteEd, MDLEd, etc. They all work to one degree or another so give them a compile on your Mac and see what they do.

Anyway, I might continue on with this at some point or ... if you get this all running on GnuStep, maybe just use your code base when the time comes. I have other projects right now that are sucking my time away.

have fun! 

Does ToeTag have show .mdl in the 3d view functionality?

I could never get that to work for some reason. Toetag was fun and refreshing to use though, unfortunately this old Mac didn't get along well with Leopard. 

Hi guys,
Glad to see there's some more interest in ToeTag, but sorry you're not moving it forward yourself, Willem.

I'm using it to run a basic map editing workshop in the Mac-based media lab that I run. The first day was probably the fastest selling kids workshop that we've done, so we had to put a second day in.

http://www.digitalmediacentre.org/wp/?p=333

I'll put up some info about what we come up with afterwards. 

Shambler, go there and learn to map!!!