IMHO... I can't see how Scragg can replace bob in a base map....
A solution would be to provide an alternate doawnload of the Quoth Update on any server (Remember that Kell sent it when you asked it..... so it is almost "public"...)... and also some corrections (e.g Scourge issue, ogre flak gibbed head issue)... and the Base pack...

So you would have somethinglike this in Quoth Directory:
pak0.pak => the Original Quoth pack
pak1.pak => necros' Quoth update
pak2.pak => progs.dat correction (if required and Base maps...

What do you think ? 

the Quoth 2 beta can't be used without Kell and Necros' permission. Kell allowing me access to it doesn't make it public, and there is a good faith
assumption on his part that I would not release it own my own. It is their work, I don't have any rights to it at all. 

that the third alternative is the weakest of the choices for a solution the problem that we have. 

So, how can we proceed ? I sent an email to Kell 2 weeks ago, and he didn't even take time to reply... So I guess we cannot rely on him now... nor necors BTW.. So, unless you force Kell to release it now, what can we do so ? Recompile our map without all the good stuff embedded in the Quoth update and just focusing on actual Quoth mod ?
I'm not happy with this idea, while it will cost only 45 mn (fullvis included)... and that would be a shame to lost sentinel, pyro, eddie, ogre_flak and scourge on the road...
So, what do we do ? 

as I deleted 12 double brushes in my quoth map and still my last extra vis took 5h55m.

but I quote for JPL #667. 

it certainly sucks. I'm only trying to outline what the feasible alternatives are. We need all mappers involved to hammer out how we can proceed. I can sympathize with the alternative you gave, after all, that 'good faith'
is a two way street, with each mapper spending dozens of hours under the assumption they were mapping for a package that would be completed, but there is still the matter of whom the pak belongs to. Also, I was never given the Quoth base tech code, so I'm in no more a position to develop Quoth independently than any one else (admittedly, it is something I would not do without permission). 

As far as I am concerned, we get Quoth 2 finished up properly with the agreement of Necros/Kell or we release our maps as Quoth 1 compatible instead.

The third option is to release a standard Quake progs compatible version. I really don't think it is worth creating a new progs that is not Quoth, and if that route is chosen I would rather just release my map as a standalone map for vanilla Quoth. 

... we need a clear list of the involved mappers for this pack... what is inculded in their map(s) (i.e Quoth update included, other pack based...), how long such gameplay changes would take (i.e as example, for me it would mean a complete gameplay refining and 1 hour of recompilation..), and also their opinion about how to proceed.. and we will need to decide what to do...
what do you think ? 

what about the start map? 

Good point... nobody talked about that before, but it is obvious we need one by the ned of the month... So, now we really need the exhaustive list of involved mappers... and one mapper for the start map... 

...I wonder. 

I was thinking of making a part of my map, or parts copying, could make a good contribution to the start map. Of course with some minor changes, so it won't look exact the same.

If we could make an agreement for a partial square each, one mapper could fit them together to a start map. 

Nice idea !!
Furthermore, I think that each mappers could provide a starting point (i.e: a "small" room that would reflect how looks his map), with a proper trigger_change_level... It would be usefull for the mapper in charge of building the start map... (only .map and .wad to provide).
It could be something like a corridor with several entries (like done in 1000 brushes winter pack 2 years ago), with some triggers that would give the name of the related mappers and the small room behind (mentionned above) in order to give an overview of what's behind the teleporter... (I don't know if it's clear...)
What do you think ? 

I'm up for it! 

my last sentence with an exclamation point? So stupid. I'm never writing and eating chocolate chip cookies at the same time ever again. Reduced to the mentality of a happy little Rafi listening
five year old because I've got my cookies and a cartoon of milk and fucking off on someone elses dime. 

do what ever u guys want to do! i dont give a shit anymore... release if you want if not dont, but i will not make any other map for a pack for sure! about the start map! more delay? errrr i realy dont care... 

it just keeps getting worse. 

once opened a toppic to 200 posts when I had to admit myself I wasn't the same one anymore I was in the first post. 

Related to post#680: does it mean you will own the start map ? 

cute little domed room I built for the map but I cut out of the current build that would go well with this idea, but as far as owning, that would be more than I intended. I want to get back to work on the SoE map as soon as I feel the current map is ready for primetime. Another chunk of free time should do it. 

So when will you need the involved mapper to send you .map and .wad related files ?
As well, as you seems to be in touch with Kell/necros (how lucky you are...), would it be possible to ask him about the Quoth unoffical update download I mentionned in post#667 ? As I didn't get any reply from Kell... i guess you would be more lucky than me.... 

 

No seriously, are you really going to own start map design ? If it's not the case I can hold my current project and built it, it's not a big deal... It's up to you...

OTOH, how do we proceed with Quoth update, or any alternate pack delivery, etc... I just note that no decison has been taken as of today, except the fact we all would like to see this pack to be released by the end of the month, and also that we cannot simply deliver Quoth update preliminary pack as is without Kell's permission (I have to admit it is not really fair... but do we have other choices due to the fact that Kell doesn't reply to emails ?)

BTW, I still didn't see an exhaustive list of involved mappers for this pack... Are there new mappers that joined since last list ? I know that Trinca, MadFox, and me have for sure something to deliver. But what about DaZ, than, biff, inertia, HeadThump, and others that posted here at the very beginning ? Any news ? 

I want to finish it but I just don't have the time to do anything good. Well, that's kind of a lie -- quake and editors don't run too well on my mac that I am using at school right now :/ 

I thought there was a startmap plan, but as it seems not further contributed I thought of making a part/startmap of 800kb.
If others participate it could melt to a 5Mb map.