albeit it's far more akin to an FPS version of scoring shmups where the point is NOT "good level design" in the traditional sense but rather in continually replaying the same stages with the same patterns over and over with the goal of self-improvement, beating records, etc. As a highly casual occasional shmup player I can appreciate that; not really my preferred cup of tea, but it's a really good game that's trying to do something much different from old school FPS, however it was marketed. It has the aesthetic down to a T, though, that's for sure.

Doom 2016 is awesome. It's obviously much more in a Painkiller/Serious Sam vein, but it blows those games out of the water in its execution.

I haven't played any of the others mentioned in this thread but I will probably check out the ones Fifth mentioned, and any others that people care to recommend (assuming they don't use procedural level generation). 

Doesn't impress me - Doom 3-style lighting, narrow cluttered rooms, boring enemies, boring trailer.

Anyway here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGdx2yg3m-g&t= 

boring music too. 

 

...weren't box rooms full of bouncing jello blobs which you can hardly see because of the blinding rave effects from the weapons.

I don't mind the lighting tho. 

truly awful particle effects 

THIS https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/271715738867580716/A778FB52531F579BFA68D5082813AB8CF78DDBF3/

in a Q1 like engine 

 

what game is that? 

One of those Dark Souls games

Thing is you can go anywhere you see there

This is what I was talking about a few posts back

Integrate to a "low detail" engine the really great parts of modern tech such as one big detailed level you can travel to any part you see of. 

There's nothing oldschool about Doom 2016. It's pretty much just Serious Sam with less enemies and more arenas that lock you in place. Unlike Serious Sam, when you're low on health or ammo enemies just start shooting them out like pinatas so the player never has to think about ammo conservation or health. Even Doom 3 felt more "oldschool" with handplaced encounters, resource management, secrets scattered around maps that aren't collectible bobbleheads, and movement mechanics and Doom 3 is the last game that comes to mind when thinking about oldschool. 

 

Doom 3 is more old school than Doom 2016 (D3 is essentially quake2 at half speed). D3 and D2016 are both rather different games, IMO. As matter of fact, I just beat D3 twice back-to-back this last week (I love the atmosphere, art, sound, animations and general vibe).

I've only beaten D2016 3-4 times and have replayed several of the levels many times. The health-on-demand system really is a deal-breaker for me. I try to compensate by playing on the hardest difficulty and by turning off most hud elements but even then I know it's just an illusion - health is at my fingertips should I ever need it. I really don't care for the arenas at all, either. Don't get me wrong, it's a good game in its own right, but it falls short in some meaningful ways for me. Had they ditched the infinite health and boring arenas the game would have much more staying power for me.

However, Foundry, Argent Facility and Argent Facility (Destroyed) are some of the most pleasing play spaces I've seen in any game. 

(D3 is essentially quake2 at half speed)

Quake 2 at half speed is Quake 4, not Doom 3.

Doom 3 was id's attempt at implementing the Half-Life style of scripted storytelling, which was hugely popular at the time. This, together with the heavier renderer, resulted in the slower pacing.

Let's not forget that Quake 1 is also slower than classic Doom. The speed in Quake was reduced to make the levels seem bigger, since the Quake renderer couldn't match the performance of the Doom renderer in big areas back them. One of the first criticisms about Quake was that the levels never featured more than 5 enemies at the same time (which I'm not sure if it's actually true, btw). 

Doom 2016 was closer to the original Doom than Doom 3, so if you want to get finnicky, Doom 2016 is the most oldskool of the two because Doom 1 & 2 are older than Doom 3.

Semantics aside, I personally found D2016 a pretty good compromise between old and newskool norms. Yes it may have arena battles, but you can tell that each arena has been well designed and the monster encounters carefully choreographed and timed, so it's a travesty to compare that to Painkiller that just throws a shitload of the same enemy in to a square arena, or Serious Sam that just spawns a giant horde in the distance and lets it run straight at you. 

1. SS focused on horde combat, D4 didn't.

2. SS very wide open spaces with little variance, D4 tighter more 3D areas with cover.

3. D4 coherent theme throughout. SS much less so.

4. D4 themed bestiary throughout. SS much less so.

5. So-called pinata thing not the god-mode that morons think it is. Plenty of risks and timing involved. 

DOOM 4 was good.

DooM^3 was bullshit.

Hope this helps. 

I like the lighting and explosion effects (that dithered smoke is awesome). The procedural generation is not just a sticking together of premade rooms but rather premade wall, floor, ceiling, posts pieces that are modularly (that's a word right?) put together. The maker says he has taken a lot of time to get the generation to work in a way that balances randomness with design. I'm assuming that means that he has "sets" of pieces that are more likely to come together in the generation to make room designs that are randomized in size, shape, etc.

I'm intrigued. Sounds like what I would do. Hope it turns out. 

Quake 2 at half speed is Quake 4

Quake 2 at 1/8 speed is Quake 4 :)

Aside from the movement speed, visuals, PDAs, and Q2's hub system, Doom 3 and Quake 2 are practically identical. You may recall one of the primary criticisms of Doom 3 at the time was that it offered nothing new in regards to gameplay.

I personally found D2016 a pretty good compromise between old and newskool norms

I agree, especially in the context that it's a contemporary AAA title targeted at the masses and console platforms. I'm not sure they could have toed the line any better within those parameters.

So-called pinata thing not the god-mode that morons think it is.

Speaking as a moron, I would have to disagree. The pinata/glory kill combo is very, very strong. Pinatas + glory kills + chainsaw and you are god. period.

Here's a two minute video of me clearing an arena in Lazarus Labs with only the SS and GK while walking and playing like an xXxGam3rK1d420xXx. I even took my armor down to zero before engaging. Disclaimer: it's only on UV. I reinstalled to let a friend check it out and Id/Zenimax won't let you select Nightmare until you've completed the game on one of the easy difficulties (lol).

Plenty of risks and timing involved.

That's my main gripe, there really isn't nearly as much as there appears to be. Doom2016 is a Doom themed Disney ride - the player's skill level has little bearing on the overall experience. It's a great ride but it gets old fast. Sure, you can self-impose limits to make the game more challenging (no glory kills, chainsaw, grenades, etc) but that's totally lame. Self-restraint is the last thing I want to practice when playing an FPS, especially Doom. 

good thing I (apparently) sucked at Doom 2016 so I could have a blast with it. 

Huh. I was sure I played on Nightmare first time. I thought only Ultra-Nightmare (permadeath) was locked out. 

...every Doom I've played. Including the turn-based Java game for phones. They all have their strengths. I'd say my favorite was Doom 2 but that's because that is when I started mapping.

Doom 3's sound design and positional audio in 5.1 was pretty mind blowing, but then I am a sound design nut.

The back and forth about all this is entertaining tho.

I'm with @lpowell - but I suck at most games. I don't play them for the challenge or the sense of accomplishment... I play for fun. 

It was fun and no game came close to looking as good in 2004. I bought a new computer just to play it. It wasn't the hordefest that the previous games were but it was cool in its own right 

Jesus fucking christ, is there still no Doom2016 mod to remove the pinata shit ? such a simple mod, such a good idea... ???