@czg
Thx. (:

If I am correct progs.dat does not lie under the GPL. There are lots of "closed source" mods.
According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeC it is.
Anyway, I just want to point that this is... wrong? Even if it is against cheats. \:

And BTW Quoth I've found those two by necros:
ne_deadcity.zip (The Rats in the Walls)
ne_marb.zip (Crescendo Of Dreams + Surmounting Terror) 

If I may, since were on the subject of the progs.dat and the GPL, direct your attention to this thread, as it explains the reason why it says the progs.dat lies under the GPL on wikipedia, when in reality it does not. It also tells the story of someone who wanted a particular source code, and threated legal action if he didn't get it.

http://www.divstudios.po.gs/fvf/forum/viewtopic.php?t=136 

But definitively is not cool :(

I'd like to remember that our community grew and still alive based on individual contributions: code, maps or artwork assets. And people new to Quake (and even those not-so-new, like me) only get a chance to learn something when someone else is kind enough to share knowledge. Safety through obscurity for a Quake mod is really a very weak reason nowadays. If someone really cares about cheating the source code absence won't stop him. But not releasing the source will discourage any beginner in the QC coding. 

The QuakeC source was released twice ... the original 1996 source release (quakec, qbsp, light, vis. etc.) was sort of an informal "you can use this to make maps and mods" license. In 2000, the quakec source and tools sources were re-released under GPL. There is also a third class of license, which is the closed-source commercial license that Valve used for half-life, for example.

Release from 1996 with no license:
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/unsup/progs106.zip

Here is the re-release from 2000 under GPL:
ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/q1tools_gpl.tgz

My interpretation is that the original release carried an implicit license to make non-commercial mods without any open-source requirements. If your code is based on that release, you are not bound by GPL.

However, an alternate interpretation is that the 2000 GPL re-release cleared up a previously ambiguous license situation. In other words, there was no license to do anything with the source until 2000, when id software retroactively licensed the original source as GPL. This means that even a mod from 1997 would have to obey the GPL. 

...although consider that most of the legal systems we'd be dealing with here are generally loathe to accept "retrospective application" (a reverse sunrise principle if you like) in law. Thus, mods from '97 to the re-release date are probably not bound. However, any mod from this period updated post 2000 would need to be scrutinised thoroughly. 

lol base pack threath? errrr 

Based on id software's behavior pre-2000, they didn't seem to mind that third-party total conversions were sold commercially without any blessing from id. For example: malice, shrek, and xmen-TC.

Since those commercial projects must have used qbsp, light, and vis in some form, this tells us that id software thought it was okay to use those for commercial, closed-source projects.

It's also extremely unlikely (but possible) that those projects wrote their quakec from scratch. So id software was okay with a commercial closed-source progs.dat based on their sources, too.

Since commercial projects are the most likely to get id's legal team to pay attention, if they let the projects happen that indicates that they thought the terms of their licenses were being honored.

So I'm leaning towards the idea that there are two licenses available for us to choose from, one being the "use it how you like" informal license, and the other being the GPL.

If anything, the GPL option actually gives us more freedom becuase that means that we can release OUR modified versions as GPL. 

give me my license to play my legal Quake mappings, before I'm paying two times for the ones I've got!

On toppic, Ive been mapping two months to clear a Hom in my LostMine map, and it seemed to be a brush with two faces on a side.
Now I see two faces on every corner of my seasons.

Than, you've got mail. 

additional idea for the new version of quoth:

misc_sound and misc_model that allow the usage of external files (wav, mdl) coming with a custom map, which are then automatically precached (!) and displayed as long as they are properly installed/refered to in the entities' "sound" / "model" fields.

would make quoth even more versatile, i think. 

http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/quoth_tutorial.html#ambient_generalpurpose
http://kell.leveldesign.org/quoth/quoth_tutorial.html#play_sound_triggered 

I am the one who want all new things! 

any chance to have it work with models too? 

... that delivery date will be decided soon ?

I'm a little bit hurry to play the full pack now... and continuing to delay it more and more, it will turn into a Spring Pack... So, are late people ready, or almost ready ? 

i want releas to :p i�m sick of my map :\ if i could go back i rebuild diferent :p but i�m to lazy to fix it :( 

I just deleted my last hom, at this point
I can start texturing and finish the end theme.

I don't understand your impatience?
In the beginning there were plenty ideas, like making an entrence to each level.Or beta test levels of each participants.

http://members.home.nl/gimli/base12.jpg 

Yes, and it was also told that the delivery date should have been during Xmas... Being latere and later it will be almost Spring.. so my comment :P
Anyway, but it would be cool to fix a date, just not to wait endlessly for late people.. :D 

was for the end of this month after Christmas schedule became unrealistic, so that is what I have been aiming for in the size and extent of my build. Also, take into consideration and as Than pointed out the new Quoth material is still in beta as well. However, If you want to decide on an earlier date I'll adjust accordingly. 

I would not like people to think I try to force other people to finish their map in a "quick and dirty" way. My only concern is that no delivery date has been fixed, and with such statement, it can be postponed forever (I hope not). Saying that, I was just simply highlighting the fact that we would need to fix some date, just to drive a little bit more the project... In real life (at work for example), working without target date is somewhere not so much productive...
Anyway, I'll wait till the end of the month.. Hopefully Kell and necros will update Quoth, and then the pack will be available soon after... 

you are right, I'll mull about the design for weeks without a kick in the butt to complete it! I believe it was Necros who reset the target for the end of January. I thought it was a good idea personaly because I always underestimate how busy my Decembers turn out to be. I think I'll send a beta out this coming weekend though. Some things I wanted to put in (you play Flash Gordan chasing Ming who stays just out of your reach throughout the level til the end) are too ambitious. Just make a normal level HT, with monsters, traps, a few goals, and secrets and be done with it already. 

I've come to a bit of an opinion from doing large landscapes with a multitude of buildings type of maps like this one, Ariadat and the Mortisville map, and I wanted to see what other mappers think.

As excellent as our compile tools are (with much appreciated thanks to AquiRe and Tyrann) the outdoor lighting model for Quake works best with set pieces, facades where the player approaches the staged portions from particular direction than it does with a more open design. There seems to be many shadowing artifacts that despite a lot of experimentation with settings, they can't be entirely avoided (though manually adjusted area lights can help). If there are optimal settings that take care of this I'd appreciate the knowledge, but I suspect a radiosity model is needed in open terrain design. 

I would think that a vis problem would be encountered before a light problem, when making outdoor areas such as you describe, headthrump. 

vising doesn't take much time. I keep the shapes pretty basic with simple designs for the buildings. 

Anyone got a copy of the quoth.def I could use? I can't find a link to it anywheres (including on the Quoth pages at Kell's site). 

if you can't find the entity def, you can just enter the entity types manually in the editor. I am too lazy to set up the fgd in Worldcraft, so that's what I have been doing :) 

ment the quothmap-sourcr or the qc?
send them both by email.