Part of the fun of Q1 and Q2 coop is that it's not serious and meticulous. I'd like to keep it that way. 

Let's say each player respawn each time he die: so I really think a kind of statistic should be great (like you can find in DM), in order to know how many times you died, how many monsters kills you have etc.. etc.. etc..

I also think it's possible to have fun with tactical decisions and make the game go (not too much) into a serious thing... It's not incompatible to prepare an assault like a commando, and have fun when butchering some shamblers/vores/etc... The thing is it must not turn into a "real life" commando preparation with its months of training, etc.. etc.. the boring stuff... 

I still think you'd need some allowances eg. if the guy with the key dies, he drops it where he dies, so someone else can carry on where he left off. 

If you're gonna drop the key so that people can carry on, you might have to have some provision if the key lands somewhere unrecoverable, like in lava or in a section of the level you can't walk to(yet or ever). Perhaps a time limit before the key returns to where it started, like CTF flags. You could even design the map with that feature in mind, with respawning enemies along the route to the key/from the key to the door so if you die with the key, you'd have to try and recover it quick or you'd have to fight through again. Just make sure you've got some respawning ammo too :-).

(Stupid off topic comment: First time I played CTF I didn't know flags returned after being dropped, and so when I dropped it into a lava pool I kept trying to dive in to recover it, then grapple out before I died. Needless to say it didn't work...) 

if there's a fight that might benefit from doing something specific, then fine, but it shoulnd't be necessary to plan anything.

if there is more preperation than asking "Ok, ready?" than it's boring. this is not csquake where elaborate plans and strategies are required to win. 

if death becomes permanent, then that means people have to play a lot more seriously. it becomes more of a tactical challenge than anything else, instead of just running guns blazing.

Give this kid a cigar!


Unless you want to follow that train of thought to completion, of course. Maybe have players respawn with the items they had before they died? And, even better, have them teleport to the spot they died so they don't miss anything! In fact, how about let's just make all players in Coop invulnerable?

All you guys who don't want coop to be difficult can have it if you want, but the fun of single player doesn't lie entirely in blasting stuff, it's in survival and supplies as well. I don't think that whole arc of FPS gameplay should be written off just because there's a second guy in the game.

If someone produces a decent D3 cooperative codebase I can roll Byzantine into, I think I'm going to have "Sissy Coop" where players respawn and weapons stay, and "Man's Coop" where they don't. :P 

Amen Lunaran! 

I think the harder mode can be fun, but I'm guessing that most people here are arguing against it because Q1 coop is just a fun relaxing romp. They don't want it to become competitive or serious because of just that: they don't want seriousness. Q1/Q2 coop is its own breed of FPS gameplay, and it should either be tweaked to emphasize its current strengths, or radically changed to become entirely different.

I also tend to agree that a serious mode just wouldn't work with Q1 the way everything is designed--especially the weapons and levels. 

at least, some one understood. :P 

If it becomes too easy, it bocomes boring and not interesting... If you want an interesting coop mode, you need to have a certain level of difficulty... In SP mode, does anybody here still play map in easy skill ?? everybody start at least in normal skill, when it's not in hard skill (for the best players...)... So in coop mode, there is no reason to "trash-bin" the spirit of Quake, and make a Sissi Coop Mode like... o_O
In fact, without difficulties, without a little bit of strategy, etc.. there is no fun, that's my humble point of view... We now have to find a trade-off to please everybody... ;) 

no, actually we don't.

q1 coop is very good as it is, and only by concentrating on it's strengths will it be made better.

if you want to completly alter coop gameplay, go ahead, but it's not something I or many others will want to play.
frustration and annoyance are something best left to SP.

I'm not against the the changes, in general however. i still stick with my earlier statement that perma death and non sharing weapons would work well in D3. try that game instead. 

When I said We now have to find a trade-off to please everybody... ;) I was not meaning that I want to change all the coop mode of Quake... I was just guessing we can find what could be the changes, according to everybody, in order to please everybody, that might be implemented.. The "goal" is, like you said, to improve Quake coop mode, by increasing its strengths, increasing perhaps a little bit realism and difficulty, and all of this should increase fun ! That's all.. 

frustration and annoyance are something best left to SP.

Well, there's the problem. I was under the impression quake single player was neither of those. 

I played Q2 coop awhile ago, it was fucking awesome thing.

I think we should leave coop in the way that it is atm. But makin' coop oriented maps sounds interesting, but usual SP maps sound more interesting for me.

I can be wrong (posting drunk), but anyway... 

tell me please, is there anyone playing custom maps in coop mode? 

kell and i have played quite a few custom maps in coop mode, both, some of our own maps and maps made by others. 

mmm, yeah, sorry that was just a bad way of putting it.
what i meant was, introducing elements that are present in a Single player experience into a Multiplayer experience would create frustration and annoyance.

what i was trying to say is that coop should be a lot like dm. it shouldn't try to adhere to the rules of SP or try to be realistic as possible. It should also try to keep 'downtime' to a minimum, in fact, i thought the idea of letting players keep at least the weapons themselves (there should still be a bit of a penalty from dying besides time lost... maybe you start with 1/4 the original ammo you had?) sounds like a good one.

also, in a map oriented towards coop, and also if it's long and linear, should open up teleporters at certain points to allow you to jump back in faster than walking the whole map over again.

think about it: what are the worst times in coop? not dying, but when you have to walk all the way back, thinking "what cool things am i missing?" 

For all this talk about quake coop how come nobody wants to play quake coop? 

I'm with Lun... if you completely erase any penalty for dying by letting players keep their guns and not have to walk back to where they died, there's no point in having a concept of 'death' in the game. I'm definitely with the people who want to make Quake Co-op harder and more fun by dint of being a challenge. 

Yeah, same here with the CTF flags :P 

I do.

But silly pixar stole you away from me. :( 

it's more a matter of who I want to play it with 

... 

in SP, when you die, you press a key to restart the map and *immediatly* you're back in the action. you're playing right away, killing things again.

in dm, when you die, you press a key to restart the map and *immediatly* you're back in the action. sure, you don't have any guns, but guns are fast to come by, and there's always the threat of being shot.

in coop, when you die, you press a key to respawn, and you walk around, picking up guns, not shooting anything (since all the monsters are dead), meanwhile, you know your teammate is still having fun killing things... finally, 45 seconds later, you've got all the guns again, and rejoined your teammate/members. well, he's already slugged through another 45 seconds of the map without you.
think of it from the other guy's perspective:
your teammate dies, and now your gameplay experience isn't coop anymore, it's SP. you need to wait 45 seconds before gameplay is coop again. sure, you can sit around, not playing and wait, but that ruins the flow.
and if you keep playing, well, that's fine, but it's not different if you loaded up the map yourself.

downtime in between death should be as short as possible, so maps with hub layouts would be prefered so that the distance you need to walk to rejoin in the action isn't to great, as well as being able to replenish your weapon loadout.

or, as an alternative:
both respawning monsters and respawning items.
when you die, you are sent back to the start, and now, you need to not only rejoin your comrades, but fight your way there. in fact, your team mates could fight their way backwards to help meet up sooner. 

or, as an alternative:
both respawning monsters and respawning items.

That's one of the main reasons I suggested that monsters and items respawn infinitely, but not at an impossibly hard rate.