Yeah :-) 

I mean, we all like Quake a lot but, ew. 

Cool update GB! Those screens look great. You could always take the best bits of the other base map you did and merge it with one of the others. not sure what though, e1m2 wouldn't make sense and e1m1 doesn't need it. It would make e1m1 suitably epic though.

Looks like rmq is a good few years away yet though :( 

Or too little. 

I'm glad to see this project is still moving forward. Are you guys considering releasing one episode at a time? Otherwise I fear it will be 2020 before we see this thing.

Also, what do you consider "layout complete?" does that include brush detailing, lighting, texturing? 

We'll be changing our release format to make things more streamlined and to work on a easier to handle scale. It will also mean more releases, albeit smaller ones.

Thanks for the interest. 

100% layout complete I consider this: all areas actually exist as brushwork, not just as plan, and the map can be "played" from the start to the end along the intended route.

My calculation includes basic brush detailing, lighting etc. because I do these things as I go (other people do it differently). The %ages really mean "map roughly finished to this degree".

e1m6rq is layout complete according to the definition above, but the %age is only 90-95 because I subtracted some amount for needed rework, which might include switching rooms around, joining rooms, changing lighting, adding some secrets etc.

The calculation does not contain the creation of additional props etc. If we did the same calculation for the entire project, we'd have to figure in many more things and we'd probably not be at 50%.

Especially things like voice acting, rigging and animation proceed at a really slow rate, and implementing features to the engine is also really hard work and not always just quickly done.

The map layout is so important because coming up with stuff and creating the basic brushwork of the levels is the hardest and most important part of the level design. It's also what took me longest to get reasonably good at. I tended to overthink stuff in the past before committing to brushwork. But once it actually exists (even if it's just orange cubes), it can be tweaked. Making it exist is the main challenge. 

My calculation includes basic brush detailing, lighting etc. because I do these things as I go (other people do it differently)

I've got approaching a dozen or so nearly complete layouts with ten to twenty minutes of gameplay and no graphical detailing :(

I'm more and more thinking of just releasing my maps as collections of as-bug-free-as-possible speedmaps cause I more and more can't be arsed with making levels pretty. It's not what I enjoy at all, even though I like the idea of it, and I'm impressed by what you can all do with brush work, but man is it just infuriating for me. So for me layout complete has nothing to do with actual geometry.

I'm curious to know how others mix the two as well. How many people plan stuff out on paper or in the editor extensively before beginning the proper architecture, vs your approach of building the layout and architecture as you go. 

just give them to someone else to detail.

Plenty of people here dont like the layout side of things but like detailing. 

That sounds a lot like me - I have little patience for lighting or making cool looking stuff, but spend a long time moving monsters about and completely reworking the flow of levels almost on a whim.

It can be cathartic though to chill out and texture a wall, or make textures for it, or build a skylight or temple.

When building I box things out fairly quickly with a loose idea of the gameplay I want, making mental notes of what goes where whilst I build.

Long term projects like RMQ are trickier - like Gb, I've got episode 3 layout complete (apart from the secret map) but I suspect I'll be rebuilding each map about 70% just because they're not up to quality.

I find that a series of strong ideas can make even the most visually simplistic maps work great. Then the simplicity becomes part of its style.

If the detail that it does has and texture choices are clever, then even better. 

Getting better at blocking out required a conscious effort on my part, several times over using different methods (dev textures, boxing map and just focusing on the layout, using endlessly tiling texture and just building). I always admired how quickly ijed could just plop down a layout. Most of episode 3 seemed to appear really quickly, while I was still doodling.

Practically everybody in RMQ is better at this than me - ijed, Ricky, rj, digs, probably Lardarse as well. :-)

Doing details and lighting as you go has drawbacks (it might look as if you're not producing much), but it also has its pluses:

- you establish a theme for details that you can re-use and vary later, instantly providing a high level of detail (and basic lighting) for new areas, instead of sitting and staring at a blank layout, having to detail it "somehow"

- you might come up with unusual things while detailing that later help to lend identity to your level

- you're forced to dedicate some time to coding and making assets, or even talking to engine coders, even recruiting help, which is ultimately good for everybody on the team

Basically you're slower when you plan and detail as you go, but you save a lot of time later because your theme is fully developed, and your technical base (mod) expands earlier than it otherwise would. 

But it depends on if you prefer top down or bottom up design.

Work in teams (with multiple people on the same level) I think top down is better - getting the big pieces in place first.

Bottom up is better when working on your own on a level, since you have a clear idea of what you're making. 

Yeah, I know that's how it's usually done. We can try that in some of the E4 maps.

LA and I worked pretty effectively on that chainmap we started. Ep. 1 also uses his spirals and the "cubeamid" which he built for me (I suck at maths), and both of the boss fights are actually largely designed by Supa.

Abusing func for our rambling again. Let's discuss collaboration at the trac. 

This discussion reminds me of those sexy development textures you occasionally see in HL2/CS-S maps. Searching for a picture yielded this tutorial about blocking things in.
http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/categories/level_design_tutorials/art_of_blocking_in_your_map.php

This guy seemed to be making a huge outdoor Counter-Strike map, so naturally large cubes for buildings works great for him. But the idea may apply to quake in spirit. You can free yourself from staring at that infernal blank canvas very quickly with this method. 

http://kneedeepinthedoomed.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/gborange.jpg 

of all the threads the bot could have posted on... 

Can you guys finish the final boss of Zer so we can finally fight the thing? 

that would be so awesome. i'd use him in the e2 secret level if no-one else wanted to! 

That would be ten kinds of awesome. I think I've said here before how it annoyed me that he was only used in a cutscene. Big upside-down shub that he is. 

 

 

RemakeReservoirDogs will now feature more locations, which wasn't possible with the original's small budget, and will now include the unfinished heist scene.