I can't count :) 

1) sounds like it would have the most tangible impact on the gameplay, although purists might argue that it would feel wrong to have Quake monsters capable of relentlessly chasing the player from room to room.

That said, I did feel the need to mackle up a very basic system in my maps to allow the monsters to chase the player up and down some of the spiral staircases, that otherwise they would have had real problems with.

2) sounds like its use would be too limited. 90% of the time, axis-aligned boxes will do the job, although I might as well admit that in Marcher I hacked in a sort of line-segment trigger (that functioned like an arbitrarily oriented invisible tripwire) which I used in a couple of places.

3) Sounds very useful all round and is a philosophy I wish Quake's trigger system had adopted from the beginning. 

Without wanting to influence anyone's votes

to allow the monsters to chase the player up and down some of the spiral staircases

This is almost exactly the use case I had in mind - a system that would be capable of allowing this, or for creatures to know how to move from a balcony, down the stairs into the atrium where the player was. The trick is making a single system flexible enough to do that without being a nightmare to set up.

It wouldn't let monsters chase you from room to room, you'd have one trigger brush creating a region, and if the monster and the player were both touching the trigger then the monster would be told the direction which moves them topologically closer* to the player. Hopefully that doesn't compromise the fundamental behaviour of any monster, just allows them to deal with complex rooms as well as open spaces.

* As opposed to the direction bringing them physically closer - the current navigation method. In open spaces, the two are the same. So by reduction the gameplay is unchanged, and in a single bound I am free! 

i seem to remember nehahra had some improved navigation systems for monsters, but you could always specify which one to use when placing the entity. i'd favour this approach 

Was something we were pondering. It got denounced when we mentioned it here of course.

Nehahra had various layers of AI and additional flags like INTREPID (ignore hazards when leaping off stuff) and the ability to teleport at will. 

ai sounds like the most useful.

i've experimented with different methods but never really been satisfied.

currently, i'm using a sort of waypoint system that monsters will follow after they loose sight of your.

it has the benefit of making monsters look realistic when searching for you, but in some ways, it makes them less effective.

an interim system i have is to have the ability to flag path_corners to make monsters both not search for the player, not react to damage, and to use their run animation instead of walk when moving to them.
this is only useful for initial pathing, as once the monster is awake and not following path_corners, there's no benefit.

but yeah, a unified pathing system would be totally awesome, but i just can't see how to get it to work for all cases. :(

good luck though. i'd be really interested to see what you come up with! 

A simple but useful bit of AI gameplay wise would be that melee monsters that are below the player or otherwise can't find a direct path to the player will instead seek to hide from the player's LoS (whether they could hide from grenades I dunno :P ).

This could help prevent a lot of cheesing combat, if the monster hides when the player is trying to pick it off from a safe position. It's often this which easily disarms the challenge in a lot of maps, and is why the only way to really create a challenging fight is just to suddenly drop the enemies directly on top of the player in a trap. 

This could help prevent a lot of cheesing combat, if the monster hides when the player is trying to pick it off from a safe position. It's often this which easily disarms the challenge in a lot of maps, and is why the only way to really create a challenging fight is just to suddenly drop the enemies directly on top of the player in a trap.

i feel this is more a mapper's failing. you shouldn't really be letting melee monsters get into a position like that unless it's something you can't plan for (ie: fiend jumps off a ledge and can't reach you anymore).

but like, for example, you shouldn't really be able to 'pull' melee monsters from far away or don't provide an easy way to exploit them. 

(...and no, this isn't an excuse to tell me to fuck off)

I'd contemplated re-writing the trigger system before, but I wasn't sure how best to do it. The way that makes most sense to me right now, is some sort of "message" system, that goes something like this:

"targetname" is what is being sent the message. The additional targetname entries (if present in the code) give it additional frequencies to be listening to.

"target" is what to send the message to. Again, the additional targets work like additional frequences to be broadcasting on.

And them there's an (as yet) unnamed 3rd field, which is the message to be sent. This could be something like a traditional use/activate signal, a kill signal, a change texture signal (so you can have brush entities that are doing something more useful than just being func_walls change their appearance), or maybe even something else.

This is made more interesting, of course, by being able to send a different signal to each target. Yes, this is still similar to how we have .target and .killtarget now (and yes, this would allow both to be done at the same time, as is the case in Quoth, RMQ, and other mods), but it would be more flexible than that.

The only part I'm not sure on, is if this signal should be a float or a string. And then, of course, you have to define what all of the signals mean for each object. Obviously, there would be a few common ones, but some would need additional things specified. 

yeah, that's an ok system. it's good because it's unified and probably easy to understand from a programming point of view.

i imagine the 'message' could be a simple bit mask where you can select what you want to change to the triggered object. so a single trigger could change, for example, both the func_door texture AND open it or whatever.

but it's just easier to code up helper or script entities instead and more intuitive in an editor (not to mention there's no support for an 'entity message' in any editors). 

mm, my mind apparently skipped a beat and i didn't actually explain myself on that third paragraph. o.0

i say it's easier, but it's also more flexible.
i have script entities that can change an entity's owner, change specific 'target' strings, toggle flags/spawnflags on entities.

toggling a func_walls texture is simple, but how would you put 'change targetname2 on this entity to xxxxx' in a simple one string/integer message. you'd end up with other helpers anyway. 

What is the code that lights the sigil's place marker on the player's GUI as each sigil is collected?

Are the lights just made in order or do the shapes relate to the actual sigil?

I do not get any lights when I use them (and collect them)in my levels - what gives? 

an engine coder could tell you for certain, but in the qc, picking up runes sets a global variable 'serverflags' with bits 1, 2, 4 and 8, corresponding to the appropriate episode.
the runes only work if the UI is set to the default one. hipnotic and rogue game modes turn on their respective UIs which don't check the runes. so if your mod uses one of those UIs or you're using quoth which uses hipnotic UI, then the runes don't show up. 

Yes, if I use standard progs.dat (1.06) then the UI lights up. I am not using a mod but I am using an 'enhanced' progs.dat.

However, I have checked the sigil_touch section in items.qc and it exactly the same as the 1.06 version. I cannot find any other differences related to 'serverflags'.

Strange. Must be something, but I don't know what. 

THIS CODE IS PURE EVIL.

YOU MIGHT FIND IT USEFUL.

BUT DON'T GET FUNNY IDEAS.

So...I was working on the winner of the straw poll, which is the navigation entity stuff. Idea 3 did attract some attention so I might put up an article about naming in QC which would contain the "clever ideas" part of the event system I had in mind, so someone else with time on their hands would be free to do the footwork implementing it. Most of the effort would be in creating useful input and output on the various func_ entities, but at least it's a chance to exercise some creativity.

Anyway, I was trying to create some beautiful code involving callback functions (been reading too much ajax stuff recently) and managed to confuse the compiler enough for it to mistake a string field for a float. As you may or may not know string fields in QC are integer offsets into a big block of strings. So I came up with the following:

float INT_1 = 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000014013;
.string tempstring;

void(.float stringfield) increment_string =
{
��float increment, stringvalue;
��increment = INT_1;
��if(self.stringfield < 0)
����increment = increment * -1;
��stringvalue = self.stringfield;
��do
��{
����stringvalue = stringvalue + increment;
����increment = increment * 2;
��}
��while(stringvalue == self.stringfield);
��
��self.stringfield = stringvalue;
}

void(void(.string floatfield) dispatch, .string fieldtype) strip_fieldtype =
{
��dispatch(fieldtype);
}


//then put the following code somewhere
{
��self.tempstring = self.model;
��while(self.tempstring != "")
��{
����strip_fieldtype (increment_string, tempstring);
����dprint(self.tempstring);
����dprint("\n");
����if(self.tempstring == ".bsp")
����{
������dprint("It's a bsp file!\n");
������break;
����}
��}
}

It's so hacky I don't even want to talk about why it works. 

In time maybe I'll see this as undoing a great blessing but: a correction:

float INT_1 = 0.00000 0000000000000000000 00000000000000 00000014013; but without the spaces. 

increment = INT_1 o.0

mike: i was referring to the command switch you use when launching quake, not the progs. the progs can't change the UI itself, unfortunately. if you put hipnotic progs in the id1 folder, you'll get hipnotic entities, but the UI will be default quake. 

on pathfinding...

if you're gonna implement a brand new system... should just go whole hog and do a star and just let the mapper plop down some nodes. that'd be insanely badass...

i'd totally do it, but i'm too dumb. ^_^ 

I am not sure I understand. No, I am sure I don't understand.

I have two .bat files:

fitzquake085.exe -window -heapsize 40960 +gl_clear 1 -width 1024 -bpp 32

fitzquake085.exe -window -heapsize 40960 +gl_clear 1 -width 1024 -bpp 32 -game mynewprogs +skill 2 +map This_FMB_1_8c

The first runs the iD1 folder and this has no qconsole file and the same config file as the mynewprogs folder. The mynewprogs folder does not have a qconsole file either.

As far as I can see the only difference in the two folders is the progs.dat. Yet the first bat file game shows the runes lights as you pick them up but the other bat file game doesn't.

It does not actually affect the gameplay but as you need all four runes to create a certain effect, it would be useful for the player to able to see what he has already picked up instead of having to remember.

Any hints as to what could cause mynewprogs to apply different UI settings? 

So do you have .float items2 defined somewhere in your code? If it is defined anywhere then the serverflags info is not sent to the client - to save bandwidth that info is replaced by the items2 info instead. 

Funny you should say that. Yes, I do have .float items2 as I have the drole and vermis from Quoth.

//quoth -- items
.float items2; // bit flags for new items -- ran out of room on items...

I am not sure why they ran out room; perhaps I'll experiment with changing it to 'items' and see what breaks. 

As 32, 64, 128, and 256. If you're using .items2 for your own nefarious purposes, then leave those four bits for the runes. 

sigil_touch() will need to be adjusted for this to work. The line

serverflags = serverflags | (self.spawnflags & 15);


should be followed by

other.items2 = other.items2 | ((self.spawnflags & 15) * 32);

This won't send the update to all players, but that's only relevant in coop. Also, impulse 13 won't update the hud properly, but a similar line will work in the function that handles it. 

thanks fakepreach and lardarse for clearing that up! i had no idea .items2 had any bearing on serverflags!

mike, since you're only using the drole, you could do a quick find/replace and just change 'items2' to something like 'drolevar'.
that way you can just leave the old serverflags variable alone.